Okay, bear with me as it has been awhile since I have screwed around with something I came up short on gaskets for. Working on my 60 model 401 Buick and came up short on the water manifold gaskets. Needed a break so thought I'd ask about some of the Permatex brand, ultra copper or their black (thnk it is RTV silicone) "gasket makers". If I have the surfaces real clean will this normally seal good enough without a gasket? If not I don't mind fabricating one up but trying to decide on the best material to work with. Cardboard,bicycle inner tube rubber? I'm sure these are some stupid basic questions but thought I'd ask before I end up tearing it back down again.Never had a 401 before and got spoiled always having everything for my 455 Buicks in the past. Thanks for any help
go to any auto parts store and they have rolls of gasket material you can cut it out to fit. works good...
I've always used gasket paper and gasket shellac on those but, I can't see why permatex wouldn't work. You do have the o-ring where it goes into the top of the water pump...right?
HTML: You do have the o-ring where it goes into the top of the water pump...right? No, I was looking at that so glad you brought that up man. So is that actually a real thick O-ring or is it a graphite rope seal like they use on rudder ports on boats (I have some of that)? Looks like there may be an old stack of them in their but this is my first 401 so tt is is all new to me. Okay, good to know the parts store carry the correct material, clicking along the learning curve here.
Permatex makes some stuff called "the Right Stuff" which seems to work pretty well. I was at a demo a few weeks ago and the presenter said some race shops and production lines are going to just strictly using it and not running gaskets at all anymore. I haven't used it yet though, anyone else have any info on it? Check it out here: http://permatex.com/products/automo...uto_Permatex_the_Right_Stuff_Gasket_Maker.htm
So sounds like I might be out of luck without that O-ring (looks like the last person just gobbed the hell out of an old one with sealer).Any idea on a source for them?
I would not improvise on gaskets--get a real Felpro set, also remember that the gasket catalogs break down the sets and give part numbers for the contents if you need just a particular piece. I really think engine gaskets are like radiators and wiring--if these things are no good, your whole car becomes an endless mess of reliability problems.
That does look like the right stuff Thanks I guess I am avoiding what I know is the truth though with some of the pitting in the mounting faces I am still going to have to come up with some gaskets for the best results. Then there is the O-ring though, that might be what leaves the project stranded again for awhile
Bruce, We were posting at the same time.All I have ever bought were entire kits so I'll see if I can locate the one's I need and an extra set or two. Thanks for the tip on that
A good autoparts store should be able to get you a complete gasket set for a Nailhead. As for gaskets--I've made a LOT of my own gaskets, using a roll of gasket material. It's paper-like, not cork. I've never had one leak or go bad. I have gone the extra distance though for them--I have a little gasket making kit I put together. Started with a set of hole punches. These come in their own case. I got mine at the mom & pop auto store I used to go to, but I've seen them in other places. (Try Harbor Freight or any other cheap tool company). They might be marketed as leather punches. They are basically chisels with a round, hollow end that's sharpened, and it punches a hole. The smallest is the right size for a hole in a leather belt, the largest in my set is about 1/2-inch. I also have a small dedicated plastic kitchen cutting board I got at the Dollar store. It's always there in the drawer with the punches, and the punches are always in their pouch. If you end up finding a set of punches but no pouch, find a small box to keep them in, so they aren't floating around--keep it organized, and you'll always be able to use them. Always use a fresh, SHARP blade to cut the gasket material. Razor blades, if you can use a pointed corner, are good, a box knife, or an X-acto knife. One drawer in an extra tool box in my shop has everything I need to make gaskets, including a roll of gasket material. I've made differential gaskets, rear wheel bearing gaskets for my '54 Buick, thermostat housings and one water pump gasket for my 264 Nailhead. -Brad
Okay, got some sources PM'd to me for potential part suppilers and I walked away from the car before I did any half *** work on it (at least that experience is still with me,"if you get frustrated walk away from it for awhile").She can sit a little longer so I can do it right, been waiting months so a little longer won't kill me. Now I'll go see if I can figure out how to get the 4 speed auto cable adjusted at least enough in the 455 car so I can lay some rubber without it automatically kicking out of first before the loud pedal can start twisting up the PRM's. THAT would make me feel better for sure
Oh, here is a picture of "Josephine that I'm working on, she really is a pleasure to run down the road. I tell my friends it is like driving your sun deck down the road Thanks for the help and suggestions from everyone, I am gonna go back outside now and enjoy the rest of this day off
The NAPA here has them, as does of couple of the small independent type places. Not hard to find just don't go to AutoZone or Advance.
If you are going to make your own gasket, use a ball peen hammer and tap the gasket on the edge of the surface you are sealing. Use the ball end of the hammer and use a sliding motion as you tap. It will cut the gasket material perfectly. As for the holes I tap them to make and impression then use a gasket punch to make them perfect. Been doing it for years and never had a problem yet. You may still want to use a thin coat of permatex to insure perfect sealing. Use the plain black stuff, not the ultra ****.
Be careful using this method. I've also done it with great success but, I've also seen a well meaning apprentice ruin a casting with a few overzealous strikes of the hammer.
I've used a shoebox lid for a t-stat gasket in a pinch. Worked fine till the next time I had it apart. I have also tried blue silicone gasket maker whatever for a sbc water pump gasket. I ended up walking. Your mileage may vary.
HTML: I ended up walking. Your mileage may vary. Hey, thanks guys, I liked both the making impressions combined with the hole punch method. I got what I needed and put it all together (the O-ring turned out to be in good shape once I s****ed off the bucket of sealant). Allot closer than I was but one of my "Evil Bay" purchases came back to bite me. Can't believe I left that guy such good feedback The water thermostat manifold had been blasted,epoxy painted and looked like new, transferred my parts over to it and had everything mounted and go to tighten the waterneck down and the damn hole is stripped out BAD. Don't know if there is enough meat left in there to drill and tap it the next size or not but guess I'll find out. Right now I need to buy a non a/c 401 water pump pulley.Thought I had one that would work but no luck. One fellow here was nice enough to offer me one, shipped for $35 unless someone has one for a little less (money is tight right now,so doesn't hurt to ask) I'd rather horse trade if possible
I've used it exclusively for years, NEVER had a failure. If it's not near gasoline or combustion, it'll work great! I think I have the only GMC 6.2 Diesel that doesn't leak! If you use it on sheetmetal parts (valve covers,...) you will bend them up prying them off later. I personally don't mind that, since I really hate cars that leak all over my nice dirt driveway!
I about spit my coffee out when I got your signature about "****** fluid" Well, two good votes for "the right stuff" that will definitely be getting added to the tool box if it is that strong.Thanks ChevyGirlRox and 1950ChevySuburban. As long as I have worked on cars I have avoided making gaskets and using helicoils (spelling?). Guess it only takes one project on something that parts are now getting rough to find for. Alway like learning new techniques so thanks for the generous help and suggestions. Okay hopefully one of my last "no clue" questions. I know the basic principal behind the helicoil (goes in the stripped out hole and somehow holds the bolt)any tips on how not to screw it up? I was wondering about high torque applications and the durability there but this is just a thermostat neck bolt so low torque area.
I've had good luck w/the helicoils, but having the install tool for the thread size helped. They hold well, seems that I recall having to bury the insert deep enough, so that the top "thread" doesn't rise above the surface. Apart from that issue, you now have a stronger internal thread, as the surface area is greater than stock size. (in the case of aluminum, where it's sometimes easy to strip out the factory internal thread.)
Thanks,how does the install tool do the installing? Does it tap the hole larger, or force it into the left over threads?
It was a coil inserting tool, which comes after you drilled and tapped the hole to accept the insert. Here's a site. http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.asp
If yer using any sort of RTV to stop your leaks, something is wrong. Gaskets are made for sealing. They don't need goop or slime on them. Use a thin coat of any type of grease (wheel, axle, ch***is, vaseline, white, etc.) & put the gasket together as the MFGR intended using the proper torque. Overtightening causes leaks. RTV around anything other than water will leak eventually - gas/diesel just happens quicker. Yes, I know, many OEMs are using RTV - it's because it's cheaper, not necessarily better. I admit to using some RTV in some places, but if it oozes out, you used too much (and it oozed in too!). Find or make a gasket. Don't skimp & be lazy by using RTV.
I was taught the ball peen method in the early 60s , that was how they did it back in the day. Have never had a home made gasket fail. I have used just about any thin cardboard you can think of in a pinch. any body can do it!
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