Need advice on pulling an engine from my ceiling joists

I have been thinking about pulling my motor using a chain hoist hanging from the rafters of the garage. This is an attached, 2 car garage. House built in 79. (No idea how much of that is relevant.) I'd have to cut a hole in the sheet rock since they aren't exposed. I believe the ceiling joists are 2 x 4's. I have a 5" x 4" heavy steel "I" beam about 5 feet long. I want to be able to at least lift a small block motor with tranny without worries. I was thinking of attaching some kind of supports to the 2x4's and hanging the beam exposed to the garage perpendicular to the boards so a cable hoist could later hang on a gantry.

I don't want to wreck my house trying this. I am not a carpenter by any means so I am open to some ideas. I was thinking it would be wise to strengthen the area in the attic somehow.

 

Just to get you started, some considerations. Technically, you'd be pulling the weight from your ceiling joists,not your rafters which are diagonals and support the roof sheathing. The whole system is designed largely to support a weight on it-you'd be hanging a weight FROM it-a whole different stress. I'd bet,in Texas, those roof members aren't made to support much a load since you probably don't get a lot of snow and they're already supporting the dead load of your sheathing and shingles while the ceiling joists are holding up the not so inconsequential weight of the drywall hanging down from them. But all this is a distributed load while you are supporting a load from only a couple of points which is much more of a stress.. This means you also have to consider how far apart from vertical supports you are pulling from and 2x4's don't have much strength here at all. That's why they aren't used for floors. Perhaps if you used a lot of vertical supports right near your hoist that would help. Bottom line, I think it'd be risky,especially since you really have no idea of your roof and ceiling support system. Why not just rent or buy an engine hoist?

 

Ummm... - 5' I-beam weighing @ ??#'s spans three 16" OC rafters, 2X4 rafters not built for vertical loading... , umm, please see link:

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=ENGINE+HOIST&Submit=Go

You will spend a good deal on building a suitable support overhead and then you need a chain hoist or something to pull. Remember with a 400+ pound engine there is a whole lot of gravity involved .

Powerband

 

Thanks guys, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I had just about decided on plan B, buying the one at HF if I don't find a good used one for sale near me.

 

I've done it...kinda scary. I used a 4x4 post 8 feet long on top of my rafters...uuhh cieling joists. I used a short length of chain wrapped around the 4x4 and a come along to pull a SBC. I had no sheetrock and the joists were the kind that were assembled with that mesh plate looking thing. But in a pinch it worked. Let's see...400 lb motor spread over 8 feet of 4x4...16 inch centers I believe..so that put the 400 lbs spread over 6 joists=66 lounds on each joist plus the weight of the 4x4,come along and chain....call it 100 pounds.
I've never seen a joist that wouldn't allow me to hang on it...I'm 300 pounds....so yea in a pinch I would go for it...as a permanent solution I think I would look at a cheap cherry picker or go up in the attick and add a 2x4 next to the joists you want to use and sister the joint so it is a little stronger.(just in case!)

 

I wouldn't advise it. Just storing some stuff in my attic and crawling around up there cracked the drywall badly.
Ol Blue

 

i would not do it. most trusses are only built for a light sqft load(i beilve about 60lbs per sqft). even if you triple up the lowerer board you are still trying to lift 750 lbs or so.now with that said here is how my trolley is done. it is a 6" tall I-beam that goes from side to side of the barn(32' wide). it is hung/suported by 2 upside down "L's" that sit on the siles. it is about 2" below the celing. it is also supported by 4"x6" timber on each end that runs from the floor to the bottem of the beam. there is also a stabilizer in the center that ties to 2 joist at the peak. check the garage journal for more ideas.
i personaly prefer to pull motors with a cherry picker.Good luck Trout

 

Gotta spread out the load more - your 5-foot I-beam only hits, what, 3 rafters? Probably not near enough - puts the weight of the I-beam, hoist, motor and tranny on 3 rafters. If you get a two or three inch thick, 12 foot long (or longer) glue-laminated beam and spread the load to more rafters you will have a chance. Some of this depends on the truss or rafter construction, and what you can attach to. In general, go with (strong, engineered) wood attached to wood (wood grows/shrinks with the seasons)- a thick metal plate on the backside for a washer, and a chain.

Weight of a motor + tranny if you are doing a Hemi is , I dunno, 1500 pounds? Maybe 1000 for SBC? Figure out how much weight you want to add to each truss - don't forget the beam, hoist, etc. - then make the mounting reinforcement at least that number of trusses wide.

And all this assumes your weight will bear equally on each truss, which is false, if everything is perfectly level, most of the weight will go on the trusses nearest the hoist - you may need to add diagonal stringers from the hoist area to further trusses to better spread the load.

(I'm not a structural engineer but my dad was - and seen a few ceiling failures from people trying this. Good place to overdesign.)

 

I have got a better idea, come get my cherry picker, it is available whenever you need it,

Rusty

 

We did it in a friends garage just picking up a 350 to put on a stand and it did O....k.... but if we were gonna pull out of a car with all the movement i don't think i'd do it think about how much a garage costs then think about that harbor freight lift

 

what dirty31 said, drinks are on u
back to lurking

 

Too risky - too many unknowns - too expensive to fix if it goes bad - too embarassing to tell the wife - too many years for her to throw it in your face.
rent, borrow or buy a cherry picker.

BTW - I put an 8"(?) "H" beam (it was free) across the garage - it sits on 4 - 2x4's bolted together on each side - always meant to put in some heavy wall columns - never got around to it. Pulled many iron hemi motors from it - no problems.

 

COme get mine I said

Rusty

 

sir, if your celing joists are 2x4's. pull that motor with the cherry picker, and drop it on your builders head.

 

The ceiling joists in my garage span the entire garage front to back and are 2X12s. I've pulled many an engine (flatheads, SBCs, BBCs, Chevy inline 6s, Mopar flat sixes) from the chain I wrapped around one joist which I reinforced with 4 2x4s(two on each side) about 6 feet long. No flex, no problems.
I would never, ever, try to pull an engine from a 2x4 which is part of a truss. Who needs all that lumber on the garage floor?

 

What do your ceiling joists need an engine for?

 

They sell the engine hoist at Pep Boy , Kragen, Checker, Harbor Freight, etc. for $ 99.00 and they fold up and out of the way and portable. Your garage is worth more than that. Beside the trip to the ER is going to be more than the host would cost after getting the splitters out of your butt from your wifey hitting you with the 2x4's that came down from the ceiling falling down and getting the splitters out of your butt in the ER!! That would be embarrassing

 

How did that engine get up in the joists in the first place? The whole thing sounds sketchy.

 

You can kinda see in this pic that I used some vertical supports and a "bridge" across the rafters to lift an engine. If you would use the beam you have with legs under it you wouldn't really need to worry. By all means fasten it to the rafters, but put legs under it to bear the wieght. I used wood for the bridge part and since it wasn't that heavy I would let it attached to the ceiling and just put the legs under when I lifted something. When I added on to my garage I had a 10" steel beam put up on block filled with concrete pillars just for lifting heavy stuff.
CHAZ

 

Most parts stores have rental tools, including cherry pickers that you can get a hold of for REAL cheap, and then return it when you're done

 

Rent a cherry picker.

 

Whenever I'm thinking about doing something like this, I always stop to consider the single most important factor: Is it going to make enough noise when something breaks to cause my wife to come running out into the garage? If the answer is "NO" then proceed with plan.
If "YES" then ask "after she ascertains that I'm alright, is she going to A) ask if I'm okay, and nag at me for doing something stupid, or B) yell at me for doing something stupid and destroying the house/her car/something she uses, etc.
If A), proceed with plan.
If B), ask myself "Is it worth the nagging, yelling, and constantly bringing it up in the future? Plus the cost of fixing it to make her happy again (money AND whatever other "costs" are involved)
If "Yes, it's worth it": proceed with plan.
If "No" then...actually, I've never gotten this far.

If he has trusses in his ceiling, they'll probably be made of 2x4s. Mine are out in my shop.
Another thing to ask yourself is this: take a few 2x4s, spread them out on a couple of saw horses, 16-inches on center. Now set your I-beam in the middle of them, with no support under the beam. Now set your hoist and chain on it. Now set an engine on it.
Now watch your toes.

-Brad

 

thats what I was thinking.....2x6 is the minimum you can go isnt it?


Either way...2x4 or 2x6....that is sketchy as hell. Buy a cherry picker. Then when one of your friends is in the same situation, you let him barrow it in return of a case of beer.

 

Sounds like a lot of hassle when you can rent a cherry picker for the weekend for a few bucks. I was at Northern Tools yesterday and they have a cherry picker and engine stand combo going for $149.99. Hell, find a local car message board and see if you can borrow one. Guys loan stuff all the time on our local race board.

 

Borrow Dirty31's Cherry Picker...solved.

 

Rusty's got 1 , I got 1 , and Steves got 1 . Problem solved..

 

Thanks to Rusty and Danny who offered theirs. Brad54, that is hilarious and VERY good advice along with the great advice from everyone.

I decided after the first couple of posts I won't be wrecking my house to try it. I'll just get a cherry picker either buying or borrowing at first just to get this motor out. I hate borrowing tools from people, but I need to get this motor out and get this car fixed. I'll be needing one long term anyway working on the hot rod. I think I may have found a used one for sale reasonable.

 

it depends,...the 2x4 sounds like an engineered truss, but I assume the engineer did not account for ANY type of load hanging from the bottom of the truss. 2X6 may be minimum, I would need to check, but personally I wouldn't want anything less than a 2x10 for ceiling joist (non truss design )over a 2 car garage span.

 

Ive got trusses in my garage and i layed a 4x4 on top of them and ive pulled 3 small block chevys with turbo 350 trannys and lifted one 460 ford out of a jet boat. I now have a H/F cherry picker but id use the other again if i had to.Dave

 

I was thinking the same thing as SlowandLow63... I got a cherry picker in Frisco, you can use it as long as you need it. That's what the wife said to tell you...she's tired of looking at it on the patio. PM me, and come and get it.