Hemi Mockup - 34 Coupe - Anybody have a shoehorn and flexible stainless pipe?

Firewall Removal - Setting Up Engine Location:

I finally removed the stock firewall in my 34 five window coupe. This gave me a chance to prototype the block location, firewall set-back, etc.. I need 8" of room from the front of the block to the end of the 3" blower pulley, which means the engine needs to go back about 3 - 4 inches. I'll need to have the lower blower pulley above the front cross-member to have any chance at all.

This is really going to be a ***** of a job . . . one of the hardest things I've ever had to fabricate and work through. Trying to get the motor mounts, steering box (Vega), full-length headers, brake-clutch pedals, steering column, etc. to fit . . . wish me luck boys!

Header Snake Pit Anybody ?

I then put my spare set of Donovan 417 heads on the block - to see how much fun building the headers is going to be . . . holy **** . . . I've got my work cut out for me! I'm going to have to bring the front 2 header pipes out a bit and over the frame frails, then the rear two will probably tuck under, angle forward quite a bit, etc.. My goal is equal length headers - or damn close . . . looks like an exercise in "metal sculpture".

Notice that the Donovan 417 ports come out at pretty much a straight angle - as they're designed to run zoomies on a fuel car. Standard 392 heads and Hot-Heads repops have an angle that tilts the port surface downward -- making the header flange/bend transition much easier. I've heard that it would cost me over $3,000 for custom stainless headers . . . so I'll guess I'll learn what a ***** it really is! (insane the costs these days!)

I will update with "real" engine mockup pictures once I finally get the damn motor parts back from the machine shop . . . (another few weeks @#%@#%). I have the steel for the frame jig - will order the new frame rails and start the frame design and construction as well.

Enjoy my pain . . .

 

Wow.....I've been strugling in my head about my 34/blown HEMI shoehorn attempt.....certainly a 'nice' squeeze. Very interested to see how you go.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

Great start on a real project!! Looks good. Ever think about lengthening the frame a couple of inches when you box it?? Making headers is really no big deal, planning and not rushing makes it happen. Big secret is making sure that the ends of the tubes as you cut them are kept square. You big Apex disc grinder is your best friend.

Rex

 

You aren't the first and you won't be the last, so it is a job you can do with determination and skill.

 

It can be done, looks like it needs to go back about a foot. Here's one picture.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232971&d=1160920803

 

Yes . . . that was one thought that went through my mind (as I'm starting with new rails anyway). In a 34 ch***is, it is even very difficult to fit a blown flathead in there - without moving the engine back at least 2 inches. I ran a SCOT blown 59AB and 39 Zephyr box in this car - not even room for a fan and had to run th early water pump setups - with two 1/2 belts.

I kicked that idea over for a hew years and finally decided that I wanted the front dimensions to stsy stock - as I want the angles on the hood sides to stay and Henry designed and for things like the fender well panels to be stock. I'm thinking of building a hood - with 'cut outs' or blisters on the sides for the valve covers. Lots of ways to skin this ole' cat!

 

I like the pics and thanks for sharing. It looks like you are off to a good start. Do you have the adapter and trans yet ? You should mock it up with those as well so you don't end up to high there is not alot of room in the foot well area of those things. I like the valve covers are those Donovan ?? I bet there worth about $50 or so aren't they ??? Keep us posted!!!

 

Here is what we did on a 34 we built using a blown y-block. we removed the stock firewall and cut the actual body back a few inches.....don't remember how much for sure and made a 1 piece firewall out of 1/8 steel. after cutting the firewall to shape we brought it to a large steel place so we could use his break to put the two bends in it, the rib along the top is solid metal rod cut in half, we wanted to kinda give the stock rib appearance but should have added one more, the recess in the firewall is for the mag to fit in. we also used the stock aprons so we needed to extend those so they would fit flush back to the body.

 

Nice looking car - great job!

Thanks for sharing . . . you obviously had to tackle a similar set of decisoins that I'm in the middle of. I'm trying to keep as much of the original body as possible -- just in case that some YEAR I might want to put the stock firewall back in place and change the look of the car. Can't imagine doing that today . . . given the amount of work . . . but maybe it will be the "next generation" of hot-rodders. Early Hemi engines are huge . . . they earned the name "elephant" for a reason.

I believe the headers will be my biggest and most difficult part of the front-end project -- though they will play a big role in what the car ultimately looks like. I think that having the pipes visible and a part of the overall look will help make the car unique and different. Lots of guys have put early Hemi's in early Fords - though I think my combination will be unique in the end.

Thanks!

Dale

 

I have space issues with my pedals like you do. Friggin' Hemis!!! UGG!! I'm trying to figure out how to fit three pedals in a Model A with a Hemi. Good luck! Looks like a great project! Can't wait to see how this turns out. I bet those heads are wicked too!!

 

It is easy to see why many folks just plain give up and run an automatic. I'm running a TKO 5 speed -- so I'm sure I'll end up having to do some custom mods to whomever's brake pedal setup I use. My stock 34 pedals could be made to work, but I don't want to hack them up for this application - will leave them with the stock frame.

I imagine that in an A, you have even less room . . . maybe just bring along a cracked flathead block and a piece of chain -- throw it overboard and drag yourself to a stop I even have a block I'll give yah!

Best of luck - I'll post more pictures as I fab the ch***is and all that fun. I talked to *****en Products and their Big Block firewall is a good start, but the set-back opening is only 30" wide -- the Hemi needs about 32" . . . there goes some more mods!

Dale

 

Yeah! Very little room! The first time I mocked everything up with the body, trans, motor and a make shift seat I got real concerned REAL quick! I had on some pretty bulk steel toe shoes and I could BARELY get my feet in a comfortable position. Looks like I'll be driving in Chuck Taylors! LOL!

Here's a picture after getting out of the car when doing mock-up. I used the drill storage box to simulate the floor height. The width is about 10 or 11 inches I think. That is about all I had between the cowl and where the tunnel will be.

I feel your pain!

I like the block and chain idea! Sounds more reasonable than what I'm doing! Would make a nice e-brake all in one too! LOL!

Keep us posted on this build! I still want to add it to the Hemi Tech section too. When you reach milestones on your Hemi build, shoot me PM's with the milestones and I'll add it to the archives!

Scooter

 

Here is a pic of headers on and some dimensions these are from hot heads. The donovan heads make it a little harder to get by the frame and steering.

 

I do not know about everybody giving up on trying to shoe horn a hemi with standard trans into an early ford but I for one and I do not speak for everyone or anyone else but I would have liked to have had a standard trans in my car when I was building it but did not have the funds to go that route and still don't. That is why I went the auto route but I would still like to have that third pedal someday. I am grateful for what I do have and try to enjoy it as much as possible. Keep at it and remember it will start to look better the closer it gets to firing time...

 

I have pedal problem too.Have anyone used those under dash angle things?Is kugel onlyone who makes those?their version so damn big it wont fit under -34 dash properly.I would like to keep frame and body as original as possible.

 

just an idea....

 

I just sold my hemi, so I won't have to deal with those problems anymore *sniff*...I'll pick another one up someday, but until then my Plymouth will just have an empty hole where her heart should be...

 

You and I have exactly the same issues here. Silly extended bells!! Been thinking about using the Tilton units that hang underneith. Very small. www.tiltonracing.com Just got their catalog today and they look pretty slick. Not sure on pricing though. Might be big bucks. You can always fab your own stuff too using those guys as a model.

 

those tiltons look kinda pricy and modern.my hemi is an old hotrod/drag engine,bored and stroked 4"x4" with rollercam etc.It either goes like hell or just makes a big bang.either way I love it.I´m willing work and suffer to get it fit in there

 

Yeah, way modern looking! I agree! I'm thinking of using their cylinders though and fabbing a hanging setup based on the ratios used in their designs. I agree, they are probably pricey.

 

those tilton cylinders looks good.If someone had some measures for those pedal it would help a lot.Tech thread anyone?

 

Tell you what gang . . . I'm bound and determined to run brake/clutch pedals that at least "look" and operate in a similar fashion to Henry's originals. I am sure that the whole ***embly will be custom . . . or a modification to somebody else's stuff -- but it has to appear and work almost like the stock pedals (in my case anyway . . .).

Since I have to "solve" the issue -- I'll keep this thread updated as I figure out what my solution will be and will update this thread with all the information I capture --> components, part numbers, fabrication, problems, etc.. --- might help the next poor ******* that heads down this path!

I do plan on running a hydraulic throw-out bearing -- as noted in my post on early Hemi's, Sonic bell-housings and TKOs (you can do a search). I just don't have room for a bunch of manual clutch linkage in addition to the Hemi, headers and everything else. I may or may not run a power-brake booster . . . depends on how good/bad it looks under the car.

Dale

 

I think all the dimension are for the cylinders AND the pedal ***emblies are available on the website.

 

I'll also be running a Hyd T/O bearing. The early 331 extended bell motors were not offered with a mechanical clutch.... or a manual transmission for that matter (51 to 53). So there is no cutout for the control arm.

Yeah, keep us posted on what you're going to do. I'll do the same with mine. I'm sure I'll be straight custom as well.

Thanks Dale!
Scooter

 

Hydraulic throw-out bearing is the way to go for sure. I'm using one in my Model A along with a modified 40 pedal ***embly, and it works great.

 

Saves on a lot of extra gadgetry too...

w/out this becoming a thread about t/o bearings... what hyd. t/o bearing did you go with for T10 (or was it a muncie?)?

 

I just did a hemi 4-speed in A highboy , I used f-1 pedals with an adapter to a mustang m/c, I've used the duce factorys brake and clutch pedal in a few cars too its small and fits a lot of combos. I never had to go with a hydraulic clutch set up yet . bell cranks are simple just find a spot it fits, Headers here's an idea i have run the left side pipes under the oil pan it would solve clearance issues with the pedal ***embly latter Dave

 

For pedals and stuff I've use parts from circle track cars.

 

I have wanted to try a hydraulic bearing for a couple of builds nobut have always opted to use the 60-63 Chevy truck master cylinder with the slave cylinder to match for the price. It is a easy use with only a small bracket made to hold the slave.

Rusty

 

I to am getting to this point with my 32 hemi coupe...running origional frame...54 ford swing pedals...have not settled on trans yet, so I am open to suggestion and any advice you guys have...whats worked for you guys...