Stovebolt TECH: 58-62 side mount adapted to 53 frame towers

I'd be uncomfortable asking the guy that sells them to give up trade secrets. Hell, maybe he'd be into it though. I'd be willing to be that this little problem isn't his bread and ****er.

That seems to be the consensus. Finding one is pretty much a matter of luck though.

 

Why don't you just give Langdon or Buffalo a call? If you really want to buy instead of build, thats what you're gonna need to do anyway...

That front motor plate diagram/photo you linked is for the trucks. The cars are a bit different. They mount on the angled parts of the front plate. You can use a pair of those "hockey puck" mounts if you can't find original 49-51's. Just look at an actual 49-51 car and you'll get the idea...

Clutch forks are straight for a reason. But go ahead and bend it. It will work for awhile...

 

just to follow up on one of the loose threads we've got going here,

6inarow came up with shots of his late bell>saginaw>adapter>stock closed drive setup. The adapter is from Patricks.

Pics:


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010134.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010133.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010132.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010131.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010130.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/P2010129.jpg

 

I guess I just dont see the trans swap as that big a deal. Modify the damn bellhousing and tweak(not destroy) the clutch fork and be done with it. Or use the stocker trans. finito

slow64 my '53 block measures 17 1/4" from the back of the block to the center of the rear bolt (top) on the drivers side. It measures 16 1/8" on the p***enger side

 

Ok, just to follow up on your questions from my post earlier. When I swapped in the 261, I blocked up the engine in the position that I wanted it, then used a piece of old coat hanger to get the contour right.
At the time, I was in school, and the car was at my parents house-2 hrs away. Needless to say, I didn't make them overnight. I had to cut windows in the inner side of the frame rail to allow access to the bolt heads. I used 1/2" diameter bolts and large flat washers top and bottom. The hardest part was trying to find hockey pucks in the middle of June! So, I put a washer on the bolt, ran the bolt up through the frame, then another washer, then the puck, then another washer. Once I had that in place, I double checked to make sure the engine was centered in the frame rails, then I bent the coat hanger to the desired shape. After that, I carefully took the bent wire 2 hrs. back to school, and made all of the pieces out of 3/8" crs plate. (In hind-sight, 3/8" was way overkill.) Before I welded everything together, I bolted the plates to the block to make sure I hadn't missed anything. At that time, I was working in a production machine shop. A good friend of mine worked in the "bending & welding" department, and I asked him to weld everything together for me.
One improvement I had to make after I had everything back together was to drill drain holes in the mounts.
Right now, I'm running the saginaw 4-speed trans with a reworked '54 crossmember. I just finished rebuilding an S-10 T-5. That will be swapped in, in a couple weeks. So, as far as mounts, I'm running the front engine mounts, and a stock GM trans mount. With this frame set up, the bell housing mounts would have been a big h***le, and a ground interference problem. It works great the way it is.
If you're interested in the dimensions and angles, etc... of the mounts, I can get them. I don't know that I wrote any of that down at the time. I just made them to fit.

Phil

 

wow lots of **** here

i thought this site was full of fabricators not procrasticators, like i said im going the route wrenchbender went
slide the motor in the car hook up the ****** like it belongs (stock 53 chevy) then take my *** back up to the front of the motor and build whatever it takes to make the newer 235 fit on the 53's original frame tower mounts simple easy and it will be done and ill be cruising by the end of the week

oh yeah
and ill be posting pics so you procrastinators can see how to do it

 

I was just re-reading this thread. I'm not sure which bellhousing I'm using with my saginaw. I do know that the trans bolted right to it with no adapter. I had to open up the center hole slightly to get the bellhousing and trans to fit together properly. And, I'm using the stock '54 clutch fork/ linkage setup.
I'll go out in the garage today and get some measurements off of my mounts for you. Stay tuned...

 

ok guys ive got the 59 chevy six attached to the 53 chevy bellhousing & trans in the car

it just sitting between the frame rails right this minute and it looks like the late model motor mount bosses on the block are gonna come up about an inch to an inch and a half further back then the original 53's

so the plan is im going to build a mount that will bolt to the later model motor mount bosses and reach back far enough to be welded to the original 53 side mounts then im gonna bolt it all like it is suppose to be

my next problem ive run into in the stupid contreversial water pump length problem

i heard Patrick's makes a really good kit for this issue
anyone know the number so i can get him on the phone and i can get me one headed this way

here is some pics of the new motor in between the frame rails and the way the motor mount bosses are coming up short

ill post up pics of the new mounts im gonna make later on tomarrow

 

Patricks: 520-836-1117

 

hey 6inarow thanks a mill


and everyone else i did a little more looking tonight and im thinking i may try to use the original truck mounts that bolt to the motor and build something off of the frame

this away once i get a little more financially stable and also decide weather or not im gonna keep the 53 putting a set of headers on or splitting one of my two exhaust manifolds will be a lil easier task

 

Thanks for the pics of where it's coming up short.

Doesn't look like it would be too hard to build a mount that steps out a little like that. It sure wouldn't have to go far.

Let us know how it goes.

As for me, I'm seriously considering wrenchbender's setup.

Let's keep posting reference pics and measurements to this thread so we can keep some useful information together in one place.

Cheers

 

Hey Saoutlaws Gotti - please keep a cardboard template or a couple photos of each side so you can show us slackers how you did it. I figure if you can save us some time, you will be a hero to us!!

I'd also be curious to note if you find both sides are different. On my 52 it looks like one side (I think its the p***enger) mount is closer to the firewall than the other.

anyhow, keep an eye on if and post how it works out - looks good!!

 

well guys i did a lil phone calling today to Patrick's (super Nice People)

anyways the water pump thing they have going on now is a late model water pump with a shortened shaft and the proper sized pulley
Patrick also said if i didnt wanna **** around with making these motor mounts that Tom Langdon has a jig, and if you send him your mounts he will modify them to fit the late model motor and send em back to you for a hundred dollar bill -----
kinda steep if ya ask me, if i wanted to spend that kinda money i would have gotten a Walton's Fab kit to put in a SBC

but anyone interested feel free to call Tom Langdon 568-739-9601

as for me im still going with my original plan to make some and ill be more than happy to share with everyone how i did it and what i used (possible Tech Week Idea) and i may even make an extra set to sell if anyone is interested

 

yeah man, a Tech Week layout would be killer(lots o' pics!!!)! Obviously there's plenty of interest...

Thanks much and I'm looking forward to seeing how this all works out!

newstranger

 

anything new to report?

 

Hey Saoutlaws -- Any thing new to report?

 

yeah motor is in and i tried cranking it over tonight but ran the battery down before i could get gas to the carb

well to make a long story short we ended up building a pair of 1/4" plates that would bolt up to the later model motor and cutting down the original 53 side mounts and welding the two pieces together and added a small gusset for strength

worked like a champ and i wasnt out any money used some left over s**** peices for the Outlaws Model A Sedan build

i didnt take to many pics those cause both my dad and i were sicker than doggs when we did it so the idea was to get it done

all i did was make a temoplete of the newer motor mounting bosses and transfer it to a 3"x4"x1/4" piece of steel the cut the 53 side mounts a hair line above the old mounting holes and welded two together and made a small gusset (pretty easy really)

heres what i do have thou and ill work on a lil hand drawn illistration for you guys and post in a few days

 

My 261 is between the fenders with the ****** bolted down. I'll be working on the mounts over the next couple of days. If any of you are holding out on posting info, do it now before I wreck my stuff!

 

It just so happens that I've got the front clip off of my chev, so I thought I'd get some better pictures of my mounts for you. Hope these help. I'm not sure what the exact angle of the mount is, but it's approx. 120 degrees from the block to the bottom of the mount.
As you can see in one of the pictures, I had to shorten the timing chain cover bolts so they didn't hit the new mounts. With the engine set up like this, I have plenty of clearance between the engine and the front cross member, but not a lot between the valve cover and the firewall. Once I get the t-5 swapped in, I'm going to play around with the spacers under the engine mounts and the trans angle to see if I can't get some more room between the engine and the firewall. Does anyone know which pulley to use to shorten up the truck waterpump? Changing that should give me quite a bit of room to play with, also.

 

Wow those mounts are a ton deeper than I thought. glad you posted this!

Stock at the firewall I had less than 1/2 an inch. Yours looks mighty damn close!

Looks like plenty under the timing plate. You're running stock steering? I'm sure you could EASILY shave half an inch off the height of those mount pads and gain what you need at the firewall.

Now I gotta go out to the garage.

 

Oh, and not sure on the pulley swap.

 

Probably the best swap for the waterpump is to call Patricks (520-836-1117) or another of the early 6 popper vendors (Larrowe, Langdon) and get the shortened shaft waterpump. It comes with a new pulley and a short shaft to allwo these later 235 to go into the 54 and older cars. Its a few bucks- $140 or so - but gives a ton of room in the front that you are looking for.

 

yeah but the foresight i had on the order a 140- dollar water pump from a vendor is .......

scenario : here i am half way between texas and who knows where and water pump goes out now ive got to get someone to transport my ride to where ever i feel safe leaving it, order another one of these non warrentied pumps from said vendor and wait a cuple of days for it to arrive, take the time out to put it on in the cramped quarter with god knows how ****ty of begged, barrowed, and stolen tools and then go on about my business .......

**** that i just moved my radiator forward the thickness of 1x1 tubing and added an aftermarket flex fan & had plenty of clearence and used the regular 59 chevy water pump.... now if it breaks down ive got a warrenty on it and any auto parts in the ares will have it in stock or can get it within a day (hopefully im not in tooo hillbilly of a town) and once again i was out no money by doing this quite simple modification

 

Left side is the toughest as it has the most offset. My left is done, needs paint. Pictures, discussion soon. Now back to the garage for old righty. **** its hot out today.

 

I made my own before they were available commercially. Just press the hub back on the shaft to the desired dimension and grind the shaft off. A 348 water pump pulley worked well for me, and I redrilled an early fan blade, as the late blade would have run into the upper hose.

 

Nice. I'll be crossing this bridge next week.

Cheers!

 

Gratuitous shot of my car:



After modifying my stock '53 side mounts I've come to the conclusion that it'd be tough to make a printable PDF template of these mounts like I originally wanted.

If I can figure out how to do it, I can create a to-scale image of the late bolt pattern used here.

Let's have a look at how I did it.

Original 235 w/POWERGLIDE mounts:


Original 235 w/3SPD mounts:


Not sure why the gussets are slightly different, but they are. Otherwise I believe the mounts are the same. I ended up using the powerglide mounts because of the straighter (and easier to work with) sides.

Differences btw LEFT and RIGHT stock mounts


Things to note:
Driver's side (LEFT) mount has an enlarged top hole.
Left mount is TALLER but has a shorter bolt pattern.

58-62 sidemount bolt-pattern:


NOTE: on the late motors the bolt pattern IS THE SAME FOR LEFT AND RIGHT.

I made a cardboard template:


Then transferred it to a piece of 3/16" by 4" plate.


Before we get any further, lets check the fit of the '59 261 in the engine compartment.

With the engine hanging from the crane I:
-mated the driveline and bolted the ****** down.
-set a level across the head and adjusted it to sit level front to back and side to side (actually I left it a little higher in the front so the pan clears the centre point steering and the timing plate clears the front crossmember. This lleft something like 1/2 an inch between the head and the firewall. That's the way my stock 235 was mounted.)
-centred the engine between the frame rails (double check at this point that with the engine centred the driveline isn't 'tweeked' at the torque tube ball joint off the back end of the ******. Probably more important to have the driveline straight than the engine perfectly centred.)




LEFT side:

<----- FRONT OF THE ENGINE IS THIS WAY!

Note the amount of offset required. The bolt bosses on the engine are, say, an inch to an inch and a half further BACK.

RIGHT side:

FRONT OF THE ENGINE IS THAT WAY ----->

The right side is a LOT closer. Lets call this half an inch FORWARD of the original mount.

So- LEFT side the bolt bosses are further back, RIGHT side they are further forward, but not by much. [BTW, don't use these measurements, I'm guessing after the fact. This is the sort of thing you just have to get out there and DO.]


Back to the mounts.

Plate bolted to the left side.


Note that I left lots of meat in the direction of the offset. See how the plate basically centers with the frame tower?

Figured I'd start with as much meat left as possible. I cut the old mount right above the bolt holes:


It turned out to be more than enough:


More t*******:

Note the incline/angle on this trim. Like I said above, this is to clear the steering/crossmember.

Timming done. Centered the 'top-hat' on the hole:

Note that I had to enlarge the hole further. The right side was the same way. [Seems that my '59 261 was slightly WIDER than the '53 235. This is one of the reasons why I think it'd be difficult to make a reliable template for these mounts and why I say you gotta just DO it.]

Mark where to weld the hat to the plate:

If I was doing this again I would leave more meat hanging below the top of the plate and notch the hat in a sort of inverted 'L' shape. This time I just vee'd the **** out of both pieces and **** welded it on both sides. Gusseted later with 3/16 strap.

I bent curvey gussets with a hammer, vee'd them, welded both sides solid to the plate, trimmed the excess plate, and cleaned up the welds. Didn't take pictures of that part but here's the finished product.


And here it is bolted to the engine:


And that's about it. Repeat for the right side.

 

wow! very clean work and looks pretty stock. nice to see the extra mile gone. people will really be taking a second look after you tell them about the engine swap.

 

IT RUNS! Fired it for the first time today. Damn that feels good. I've learned a lot since November...

55 dude -- thanks for the kudos. This is my first time doing anything as extensive as this on my own.