Glad you cleared that up, I was thinking you're crazy at first. And when I opened up this thread, I was thinking this was gonna be more about structural work. I could really care less if someone is gonna hack their car's body up and do a ****py job of putting it back together, but what gets me is people who support the "tack a tack" method is ok for structural welding. That kind of **** can kill someone, or worse, me. And it's getting worse with educational shows, I won't name names Xtreme 4x4, schools that will remain nameless Wyotech, and online forums Pirate4x4, all promoting this method as ok.
My buddy does that too, it didn't look right to me, then I asked my friend who owns a body shop about it and he said he was always taught to weld it up, of course tack it every inch or so, but to make sure that you eventually welded it up tight.
Why not go the Extra mile and learn how to **** the panels together, use a Tig welder and the correct wire to tack, then grind the top off the weld and HAMMER AND DOLLY THE THING THE RIGHT WAY! Then, when you FULLY WELD AND HAMMER The Seam, you can use a VIXEN FILE and some Gentle work with maybe a Bullseye and you have a stress free, no mud required, can`t see the Seam type REAL METALWORK!!! don`t get me started......
Everyone had to learn. Why do some people get so mad at younger guy's, or just less experienced guy's, who build their car, THEMSELVES, with little $$$, and no access to a multi-???$$$ shop, and its equipment, or all that retirement free time. Now...I understand safety, and I, and MOST people don't want to die, or get hurt, but instead of admiring the motivation, and fostering learning, some folks just sit up in their ivory towers and scoff...o.k., take your hobby to the grave with you then...Do you think the earliest "traditional" cars, you know the ones everyone here is building, and driving copies of, were "safe"? please...they won't let most of 'em on the track, nowadays! This is not saying that an unsafe car is o.k., but...geez, come on...was the first car you ever build as good, and as safe as the one your building now? probably not, why? because learning takes time, and practice! unless, I guess, you came out of the womb, rich as a *****, and knowing everything.
Sounds to me like they have the right idea with the tacking... they're just forgetting the next step. haha I don't tack things together. If you do it right and you have the welder setup properly you can do 1" "s***ches" across a seam. Kinda a 1-3 pattern. 1" s***ch weld, 3" gap. 1" s***ch weld, 3" gap. You do the weld, support the back with a heavy piece of plate, dolly, etc. and pop it with a sufficient amount of force with a body hammer. Releases the tension as the weld cools so you don't warp it so badly. Then you go back on your s***ch and add another 1" weld on the end, leaving a 2" gap, then after those go back and do it again for a 1" gap, etc. That way you don't deal with the problem of possibly having all your tack welds too cold (which seems to happen a lot.)
FWIW tack welds are to hold the panel together while you STICH weld. Any of you guys ever heard of "cold start" with a mig welder.
Also done oxy/acetylene on body panels doning the tack method seems to save time and well when I tack it all together I can manage the metal a bit easier.
the worst i've ever seen is some dude back taping a hole and filling it with bondo to shave some door handles, instead of just welding in a piece a metal. he probably saved himself a half hour. hahah
Oh man, I know this guy in Hollywood with this tacked together chopped merc! Don't get me started! Wait, that's... -stick
I've seen a few fairly high profile cars and trucks that have been put together like that, and I think other people see them at car shows and think that that's how they're supposed to do it. Like a chopped '33 (or is it '34) Ford pickup that's painted black and has the Moon logo on the door. I've seen it at a lot of shows. It's nice, and I like how it looks, but they chopped the roof and just tack welded it back on. If the thing rolled, the whole roof would s****e off and decapitate the driver. People see that truck and probably think you're "supposed" to build a hot rod that way -- just chop away and a few tack welds is all it takes. I guess by not finishing the welds they save themselves a lot of aggravation caused by shrinkage around the welds, but it's still half-***ed. I also saw a nice custom that had been sectioned all the way around and then tacked together and they primered it and drove it to a show like that. Other than not being welded right, it looked pretty nice and lots of young guys were standing around admiring the rest of the workmanship on the car. I think when people put cars or trucks that are just tack welded together into car shows, a lot of young guys think that's how they're supposed to do it. But it's not -- unless it's just temporary until you can finish it right. They shouldn't be driving cars like that out on the streets though. I think when you see cars or trucks with the roof chopped and tacked back on, it's probably because whoever chopped it is hoping to sell it to someone and make big bucks without too much work. Chopping the top is kind of the easy part. Getting everything straight AFTER you fully weld it is the hard part. If somebody just tacks stuff and then bondos over it, then that's just criminal negligence I think. Somebody trying to make a fast buck and they don't care what happens to whoever buys that piece of ****.
Personally I don't see what the big deal is. Unfinished chops, tack welds primered over, etc; this kind of poor workmanship is it's own punishment. It's a clear indication of lack of motivation and pride. I'd be embarr***ed if it were me, but whatever. As for MIG welding thicker metal, such as on frames and such, this is actually much EASIER than thin sheetmetal. I just turn the knobs up to 11 and let it blaze...
a lot of tech schools/ colleges have the i car test cl*** you weld for a week ****ing off and making piles of bird**** to blowing right through 2 pieces of steel to laying pretty nice welds and hopefully have them p*** the destructive tests. most places ive heard of will let you mess around for a while before you have your test welds for the normal test fee. before you say it yeah i know the test is ******** because the metal is almost frame rail thickness and the conditions are almost impossible to mimmic in real life on an older car but it gives an unexpierienced welder an idea of what the weld is supposed to look like and break like ... something to compare thier chopped roof welds too
Some of you guys are really getting worked up over this. Tack welds with proper spacing and penetration will do the job just as well as OEM in most cases- and a hell of a lot faster with less warpage, which is what most shops are after. Items such as unit-contructed floor pans, roof pillars and other structural areas need full, prepped welds. Case in point- I worked for 15 years as a journeyman metalworker, and made thousands of fittings with hundered of miles of MIG wire run. We had the demo some fittings once; 24 gauge elbows Migged with silicon bronze. We had to run them flat with a forklift to prove s****page- the welds, both spot and MIG, rarely broke.
You have it backwards. "Tack welds with proper spacing and penetration will do the job just as well as OEM in most cases- and a hell of a lot faster with less warpage, which is what most shops are after." S***CH welds with proper spacing and penetration are, in some cases, PREFERABLE to full beads as they can prevent crack travel in structural areas. BUT...the builder needs to know what he's doing to identify such a location and need. SPEED of construction should NEVER be the driving focus on how an item is constructed. "Items such as unit-contructed floor pans, roof pillars and other structural areas need full, prepped welds." What? Thats the ONE area where resistance spotwelding shines! Full welds are NOT required or even recommended in such a construction. Those weld points are designed to accept the spot welds with properly situated overlap sections, designed to add stiffness at the weld line and allow for sealing or drainage as the section requires. Several areas of car bodies sometimes get full beads (some Silicon bronze!)but only due to the need to prevent moisture penetration from inside the vehicle (condensation) working its way thru the visible seam. Think about "C" pillar seams on older cars for example. NEW cars use spot welding in those areas now as well and usually hide the recessed spotweld lap joint area under a molding. Welding "fittings" isn't the same...only the actual process itself. Worked up? Its a problem worth getting "worked up" over IMHO... theres a lot of people putting stuff together who really don't have the skills needed to do the job, and luck can only take you so far. The "hobby" hurts someone(?)...EVERY hobbyist ends up suffering for it.
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