I briefly brought this up in the past, but I cant find where it was and I dont recall if I ever got much of a definitive answer. I know some had said the less the better, but that still doesnt answer the question due to my lack of experience with these,.... The situation is this,... My block has some small pitting on the deck, here and there (see pics)...however, there is a small area where the gasket had sat and now there is the slightest depression in the form of that gasket area. You can run your finger across the deck, get to that spot and feel the difference,...you can see the pitting in that same area also. So, right now the block was taken to be magnafluxed to see if there are any cracks, BUT I would really like a good educated answer to this because I really dont want to start building it, just to find out after I've got cash into it that its going to be an issue. Thanks for the help in advance!!
You want the least possible...they are too damn thin new. Tell machinist barest possible skim til it looks safe to hold gasket, ignoring minor pits that seem unlikely to create a direct path to trouble. Trying to go down to perfection will likely be toodamnfar. Think about using an iron head as an upper support...
NEWSFLASH!! The machinist that has this B block just called,...everything checked out A-OK! No cracks, nothing!! However, there is some small amount of rust in the cylinders,....it currently measures at .060 over right now, so there's been some work done to the engine in its past. He's putting it on the boring bar and going to take it to .080 over and see if that cleans everything up,....if not I'm thinking we may sleeve it at .080 over,....I'm not sure if I want anymore meat taken out of it at that point as I've read an acceptable amount is no more than .100 over stock??!! What do you guys think on the cylinders?? What would you do?
OK,...that's a good direction to go then. As far as an iron head,...nope,...since I've got that mill with the Thomas head on it, I was going to just use that one,..7:1 compression,....I'm hoping it will work out,...what do you think? I know I read a review on some heads and intakes,....Brent posted the link at one point,...actually said the Brumfield perfomed better than the Thomas??....what are you running Bruce?? I cant remember,...think you told me though?? Artiki,..how 'bout you? Its either that or if anyone has a iron Winfield or Cyclone head they'd like to trade me for it?? (hmm,...did Cyclone ever even make a iron head??...LOL,..wishful thinking I suppose??!! ) Now as far as gaskets go are the modern ones the better ones or is it the old thick copper ones the way to go?
Ok, good, I'm still on the right path then,...good, that's what I told him, .080, then call me, if its still bad then"maybe" go to .100, heck,....it would be cheaper than sleeving it, that's for sure!! LOL
My 3 B's are stockers...I'm plotting both some tame hops (26 mm cheater venturi, stuff like that) and studying up om what I need to know before attacking one of my spares. Lot of thinking about piston/head relationship and manifold needs of a siamesed port engine... Don't make any head or piston decisions separately...I think there are some secrets to be discovered in that area! I'm largely high and dry right now because of ongoing medical problems with wife, and anyway gotta do something on the flathead front because those goodies are already found and paid for...
Well your wife in in our prayers,....never good to hear of medical problems!! If it makes you feel any better I accidentally set the headliner of my '53 buick a-blaze, then got my arm burned pretty bad! No idea how the hell it happened when I surrounded myself with fireblanket, was doing a floor panel on driver side, pass. side caught,... was only doing some small tacks with my MIG gun,...I'm welding for a living in the field, so I know my stuff, but it was windy off and on that day,...must have been that one small spark. No other damage since interior was stripped beforehand,...just smoke, and water via my water hose!!
You call that pitting? Ha! I could show you pitting....believe me, what you have there is not that bad. The deck of my block is far worse than that, even after decking. It resembles the Somme. Yours will be fine. I'm using one of the new silicone-ringed head gaskets and there's no leaking or loss of compression at all.
AWSOME!! thats what I needed to hear today!!! Seriously thank you,..I need to smile more!! HA! Boneville,....here I come!!..... (OR,...I'll settle for a clear stretch of asphalt in the country.....) yeah I was reading a few minutes ago about those new gaskets, they sure sound good,....pre-impregnated, etc....sounds great,....what hjead are you running again?...a Winfield?? Hows that volvo trans working out by the way?....thats such a cool setup,...4 speed right?
Yep...I'm running an ali Winfield. They're a good head. One thing I will say about these gaskets, they REALLY seal. So much so in fact that it can be difficult to remove the head afterwards! Don't ask me how I know this! The Volvo trans is brilliant, well worth all the work and skinned knuckles. Having a fully synchro'd 4-speed behind a banger is great fun. Shifting down from top to third and then blowing past some kid in his ricer is a joy! Roll on summer.....
I am OK with .125" over as a norm, ...and on my stuff if I sonic test the block I will go as much as .155" over (.030" Four inch piston)
REALLY? wow,..that seems like a lot,..BUT....you're the man Brent!! Thanks bud,..hey I found my 26 T roadster body,..right in my budget to!! Hows things been with you? I'm hoping to get to OH to get to one of those vintage races as we talked about,...very bduy here with work though,....soon i trust we'll head out. Thanks again!!!!!
To me the face of the head looks OK, I wouldn't resurface is if it were one of mine. What is worth checking on these blocks while it is at the machine shop is the flatness of the manifold surface. These surfaces will warp and can cause exhaust/intake manifold leaks. Your machinist should be able to take a cut here if necessary to flatten it. There is enough meat here that you don't have to worry about going to deep. Also surface the face of your intake/exhaust manifolds. The exhaust manifold especially will benefit from this.
if your motor has been decked, and the pistons are sticking slightly out of the cylinders, what is the best H.C. head you can run? ARe you stuck with the 5.9 Brumfield that Sac. Vint. Ford offers?
You can fit any head as long as you flycut the face where the pistons would touch. Had to do this on my Winfield. Plenty of measuring first though.
We were in Marietta, Ohio two weekends ago running there. I am in the old Dodge on the outside moving up. The Dodge's engine is actually a .100" over Model A with a Cyclone head and a Zepher intake with two 94's.
I'm going to head down to the machinist later today and drop off my C crank to get magnafluxed then I'll mention to him to take a look at the flatness of the manifold area,...skim cut if needed and get her flat,...IF needed that is.
Stopped by the machinist today,...he's going to check out the C crank I have. However, he ended up taking the cylinders of my block out to .080 over to see if they'd clean up and they still wont clean,..not much left to clean, but just didn't work at .080 Now I was wondering, at this point, would I be better off taking the bore out to .100 and seeing if that will clean at that point,...OR,...just say to hell with it and have him sleeve it? If sleeving is the way,...what kind of prices am I looking at? He quoted me $400-500, and that would be for EVERYTHING in the sleeving process,...labor, sleeves and any more boring. Since this is the first time I'm working on building an engine, I am unfamiliar with it,...so I'd like some input. Thanks
Arm-chair coaching is always easier, --especially when I am not paying the bill but for me it costs $25 for the first hole and $10 each hole after that to bore a block. That means $55.00 to completely bore a Banger block. Sleeves are generally about $100.00 a hole (so he is inline), ...so you may be looking at as much as $400.00 --or up to just a tad less than $350 more if you choose to sleeve over boring. To me, that sets the pattern for what I would do. Then if they still do not clean up (which you kinda indicated they would), I will continue on taking it out enough to install the sleeves. Like I said earlier, if it will clean-up on 4 inches (.125" over size) I would not have a worry in this world about running it provided the water jackets are not rusted out too.
I'll echo Brent's price concurrence on sleeves - haven't done one in about 20 years, but back then it was $100 for first hole, $80 for each hole after that....so I'd say the quote is about right.
Awsome guys!,...thank you very much! I'm going to take a look at the water jackets,....by chance are there any tricks to concluding if the water jackets are indeed getting a bit thin?
You'll know it because it will be extremely rough & pitted inside the water jackets. They were fairly smooth originally (i.e. as smooth as the exterior cast surfaces of a good block).
ok,...i'll be looking for that then,...from what I remember it did have "some" roughness inside that looked,....well,....rough,..rougher than the outside casting that is.
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