Strange question to ask maybe, but at least its not another buried car thread. I saw this ad and it got the ol' tractor crankin' http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/trd/351296679.html I'm thinking of changing careers before I get to old or too much in debt to do so. I'd like to get into auto restoration or paint and body. I'd like to stay away from collision repair or late model anything for the most part. I know everyone on this board who dos'nt already do somthing like this for a livin' would give damn near anything to do so. So I thought it may be helpful to ask for all our sake. Unless I'm the only one but I kinda' doubt it Like most of us, I've been doing my own work for years, but dont have any formal training or a tech certificate. Any advice that anyone can share about what to expect ( pro, cons, pay? )about going into this field would be awesome and most apprieciated. If this is too off topic, feel free to delete and I'll go stand in the corner. I'm taking my beer though..........
Well, as a shop owner who has 9 employees I will give you my 2 cents. If you were coming to me asking for a job, I don't really care about formal training or certificates --but I care about Trainability, Attitude, and Ethics. Trainability in my book means being able to adapt to my way of thinking. While you will be a craftsman who will be much akin to an artist, you must be flexible to do what the customer or myself wants. Attitude means being a team player, ...plain & simple. Who gives a rip if you are the best painter but your ego won't allow you to get along with fellow employees. Success is Attitude and a project will not be successful if the attitude smells. Ethics means that you are a value to the whole shop environment. That means you come to work on time, you give the customer a value for the rate being charged, and you look & act responsibly. So bottom line, "WHAT" can you bring to this potential employer that makes you an asset to him and/or his customer? THAT usually determines what your wage will be. There is really no set price on what you should make because only the employer can know what his overhead is and know what he can pay. I personally think it is a fair question to ask him what the salary ranges are for other employees doing the same task or in a similar position. A couple other things that we do here that is probably not the "norm". Several times I have had potential employees work anywhere from a couple of days to a week on a trial. I put them with several of my guys so they can give me feedback. Then we will all vote on the new person. I choose to do this because I would rather have a harmonious team of employees that compliment one another's talents rather than having someone who is the best there is but acts like a prima donna and wrecks the atmosphere for other employees. One other thing that some may view as discrimination but it is just a plain fact of life. I gauge heavily on appearance. Grooming tells me alot about a potential employee. For obvious reasons I am not going into specifics here but cleanliness & organization tells a lot about a person's character. I have even been known to go peek inside an applicant's vehicle while they are filling out an application. If their car is filthy and nasty, what kind of message do you think that gives? Food for thought.....
Thank you very much. It very much puts a positve spin on the things I was most concerned with. I've been in auto sales/managment for 7 years and spent 4 years in art school prior taking a sales job. My major strengths are what you've outlined while formal auto training is not. I'm glad that my passion and attitude may count for alot. Again, thanks much
that is the most lucid explanation of what an employee should be, i have ever heard. good thinking. riverrat
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4rSZP0nNCc&mode=related&search= Don't forget the Job interview... .
Something to think about regarding passing judgement on appearance though, playing devils advocate. 3yrs ago I could have passed as one of the fricken Back Street Boys, metrosexual types, and changed to the newest and greatest ride yearly, getting neighbors comments of caution as to not rub through the paint as I polished between it's twice a weeks washings. Thanks to thinning hair, and preferring simplicity nowadays. I shave my head smooth and have grown a pretty damned long goatee, 6'-0", 220#. Fully tatted arms but nothing visible with a long sleeved shirt. Basically someone who visually makes any one of my daughters dates ensure she is home promptly or with time to spare. I do almost entirely all of my business over the phone and can yap an ear off, rarely meeting a stranger. Anytime anyone visits my home garners astonishment at it's model home type of decor and maintenance. I drive nothing but old iron, toss my soda cans into the passenger floor, wash my rides only when deemed too dirty (usually monthly). My choice for this is because I prefer to use my time working on my projects or relaxing, not worrying about the next soccer mom in an SUV being impressed and because their snot dripping kid doesn't comprehend gently opening a door versus kicking it open as if Walker Texas Ranger. I go out of my way to show elders the utmost of respect they deserve. They didn't make it to be that old by being assholes. I'm also the one to be up a customers ass so deep I could tell ya two days ago's dinner. Their payment is my current and possibly future wages. I know I rammbling but my point is that before you pass judgement on appearance try giving them a shot on ability. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree on the shop harmony though. The vote is a fair assesment too. They're the ones who have to tolerate the potential candidate more than you.
Oh, no offense taken whatsoever. I was just playing devils advocate to show the other side of the coin, and possibly why someone may CHOSE a particular look, the way their car appears, etc. I know my appearance does weed out a few. I was just recently consulting a local Harley Davidson dealership and was assigned what I'd thought to be a surefire twit and nobody I'd want to be around for as long as I had to be there. The type of late teen, early twenty something, pants off his ass, hat just proped whichever way it landed on his noodle, lip piercing and all. Basically the kid I'd point out and tell my son I'd kick his ass if he made those choices. In a nutshell, poised myself to hypocrite status. Turns out that kid kicked ass, was willing to bend over backwards to assist me, knew more than some of the upper management, and uttered the words that completely floored me, seeing how he'd reached a guy his age's pinnacle potential career, being within the HD dealership. He confides in me of how, "this place is just a stepping stone, I'm a full-time student studying business management so as I can stop having to wash and polish these bikes. My dad is securing us a nice commercial locale for my partner and I to open our own business soon." I was looking, shaking my head, resisting the urge to call bullshit. Lunch time rolls around, kids Pop pulls in, construction utility truck, sack lunch for Jr. We share a table as they discuss decor for their shop. Yet more egg on my face! Glad I'd kept my mouth shut. Never found out what type of business, but I'm sure that kid will be going places. Pinhole scar from the lip piercing gone by and all.
I'm at the top of this field as far as doing custom work and painting and I can not get a job that pay more then $9.50 a hour .I'm sure your worth more then that... If your lucky and find the right place . this trade suck if you work for some one ,you have to be on your own .
That, to me, is a sign of somebody who wants to be WAY too deep into his Peoples business. If I would have caught anybody do that, it would have told me my quest for suitable employment wasn't over....
That is not what I said. I said wasn't over...As in, still looking for a job. I'm not hiring anybody or looking for a job, so I'm looking at this as an outsider. But in the days that I went to shops to get hired I'd never take my Good Car. I'd be expecting to talk with the person hiring, negotiating pay, etc. ( a process during which the potential Employer is being evaluated too, by the way...) And I wouldn't want to be distracted by worrying about my Car outside You wouldn't get to see the "nice" car untill weeks or months into the job ( maybe never...) Your approach seems to lack a bit in the respect you talk about....
Hey, I haven't run my own shop since 1985 so take everything I say as if it's worth what you're payin' for it! The last couple to three years I was in business I tried to cover the restoration/kustom end of the industry and very little collision work. Now, all three of these areas of the business require alittle different business plan. I'd suggest if you're going into business for yourself that you count on being able to cover your personal expenses, out of savings, for up to two year s. Both the restoration and kustom business are very labor consum- ing (read a long time between starting and payday on a job), and are both a tough way to feed a family. I've worked with some fantastic metal men and painters and mech- anics who didn't know dick 'bout the business world. All of whom went broke when they went into business for themsevels. Be very honest with yourself. If you really like this type of work, and there is a hell of a difference between a hobby business and a business, business, you'll find a way to make it work for you. As far as hiring someone, I'd be lookin' at attitude/drive and a hell of a portfoilo-75/25. Mega egos are fine for rock stars and politicians but can really be deal breakers in the shop. good luck, Swankey devils C.c.
Brent is right. I used to have the long curly mullet and showed my tats etc. Now to get the jobs I want to come in the shop, I look a bit more like Joe America. When I attend a show now, I have us dress in polo shirts and pants- not my choice for clothing but you want the clientele to believe in your work- a REAL professional, LOOKS professional to many of the owners out there. If a potential customer meets me at she shop, Im usually pretty dirty BUT it also shows the customer we REALLY work here and are not a local auto body shop that does restorations as well. Building and fabrication rides is what we do and thats it- and showing the new customers that right off the bat helps a ton. Gold chainers dont want to see you weraing the local Harly store shirt you bought in 1993 and your ponytail hanging down your back wiht a butt sticking out of your mouth- They live in a white collar world so you sort of need to adapt to it to get those jobs... The other thing I can add is also your work quality. I wont take a second best and dont want to have to train someone how to do something more than once. When hiring an employee, I look for qualities I have in myself as well as some I wish I did. Organizational skills is a huge thing- Their car (clean or not) is a great way to see if they are organized- never thought of that. I check EVERY reference they give and usually ask for one more off the cuff to see if they can actually give one- that way the 'canned' refernce answer may not come out of the last guy's mouth and I will probably get an honest answer when I ask about their work ethic etc.-Usually hear word on the street about them too- the car community round here isnt that big- and I can uctually find info out behind the scenes if I need to. I work hard and expect my employees to do the same. Im probbaly really hard to work for but I am fair and appreciate when you DO work hard. Right now I have an apprentice who graduated from (gasp) Wyotech and one that is from a local tech High school. BOTH work hard but also are learning in the process- they DONT get tough jobs to do but are there for grunt work- starting from the ground up if you wish. Good luck in your hunt for changing careers- not sure if hands on will be your best option but maybe getting involved with more of the desk side with some dirty work will be a new job tha you love.
From someone who is a similar, yet different situation.... I'm positioning myself to quit a great paying job with unlimited freedom and excellent benefits to open a resto shop with unknown income, little freedom and crappy benefits. I currently manage a business and do the hiring. From the hiring perspective, you've received excellent advice already. The people I hire would fit the stereotypical "look" of a resto tech as my guys work with their hands and tools to complete new installations. The only additional advice I'd give is to be truthful upfront during the hiring process. I can't count the number of employees I've hired that I've been disappointed in due to their overstatement of qualifications and abilities. And with me, that gets you a quit trip to the unemployment office. Exhibit pride, professionalism, character. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice guys, you've all been really helpfull. Appearance is'nt really an issue. (Cause I'm so damn good lookin' ) Hi-o! Anyways, I've had to keep my tats hidden, look the part and learned how to kiss alot of stinkin' rich ass over the last seven years. Which I've come to accept as an asset. As well as the realizaton that I actually like selling and building value to a customer so they have no other choice but to come back once they've had my level of service. The car business has become akin to buying a loaf a bread over the past few years. If want to see a customer ever again, I better make sure that if they do stray anywhere, they are damn near appalled at the lack of knowledge and service that is usually to be had. I believe the same can be applied in any field. My "loaf of bread theory" is, I'm sure, not so evident in a niche field such as retoration/customizing but perception is reality in a cutomer service enviornment. And delivering by that perception is rare and appreciated. I've tried in the past to open up a few shops selling parts, a muffler shop etc. The one thing I found to be always evident as Pimpin' Paint said, have alot of money on hand. Which I never did. No money no loan no shop. I plan to keep doing jobs out of the garage as opposed to opening a shop. I'll let someone else sign my paychecks until I've got the money and the nads. I sort of overlooked this. South Bend is'nt exactly the hotspot for HotRods and customs and the like but I think theres alot of it that I've passed right by. A position like this would probaly be a better initial fit for my current skills than 100% hands on all the time. I'd better polish up the resume and grab the phone book. Thanks again........
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