I have a completely stock 38 plymouth P6 4door trunkback. The car is really nice with only 42,000 miles. I'm not looking to do anything real serious to it so I'm not interested in cutting or welding. I would like to lower it a little in the front and rear. Is there a way to do it without cutting anything that I could reverse in the future if I wanted? My goal is to make the car look and drive better but also remain stock looking. I want it to appear that it came that way from the factory. I found this site today and after reading a little I could tell if anybody knew the best way to do it I would find it here.
Howdy, welcome to the HAMB. On the main page at the top you'll see a section that says "New to the HAMB? Introduce yourself here". You should post an intro so we can get to know you a little bit. Sounds like you've got a cool car there, you should post some pics so we can check it out. I love those 4 doors lowered. Are you wanting it to ride nicely while it is lowered, or does ride quality not matter? You'd be better off not worrying about returning it to stock ride height. If it's value you're concerned about I think you'd be just as good hot rodding it a little bit as you would leaving it stock unless it's pristine or has been through a recent restoration. Welcome again, John Joyo...
I'm not really concerned about the value. I want to keep the car looking fairly stock is all. I don't want to swap frame or change the suspension out right now. I want it to ride and handle nice and generally be more fun to drive. I can't briing myself to cut it up yet, it's too nice, maybe in the future. I'm planning to add a split exhaust manifold and dual exhaust. Maybe a dual carb intake in the future. When the engine gets tired and the paint begins to fade I want to streetrod it and chop the top, just not yet. I'll take some pictures soon and post them.
I think I've got this right... I've worked on a few of these early Mopars and the rear is simple, but not so much the front. The rear should be mounted on top of parallel leaves which should require nothing more than a set of lowering blocks & u-bolts. Just watch your driveshaft angles & clearance. The front end is somewhat strange as the coil springs are sandwiched between the lower A-arms and frame while the shocks are mounted between the lower & upper A-arms. Sooo, the quick & dirty way here is to cut the coils and check for shock clearance and alignment issues as you go... I'm not sure if anyone out there is making drop spindles for these yet? but that would be the ticket if you could find some. I've always gotten suspension parts for these cars from Kanter in M***... try them for some sound advise... and welcome to the board. I just remembered that there's a guy on here that's out in Riverside that has a clean '41? sedan he just lowered... anyone remember that post from a week or so ago? Hopefully he'll chime in and help you out too.
I thought I could do the rear like that. The front actually has leaf springs not coils, I think they switched to coils around 40 or 41. Thats where I'm stuck, it doesn't look possible to do without cutting.
I,m in Riverside and have a '49, I cut 1.5 coils off the front and have 3" of lowering blocks, a little stiff, but it's suposed to be! http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2530000-2530999/2530557_12_full.jpg Just noticed you have front leafs, maybe some shackle changes and leaf removal?
The front has these strange looking shackles that don't look like anything I have ever seen before. I need to go jack it up and crawl around under it again and get a better idea of whats there. It's totally different up front than anything else I have ever owned.
Parallel leafs with a straight axle? ...guess you could do like everyone else and drop the axle and remove some springs and see what happens? Post some pics and see what everyone thinks... I thought Mopar went independent earlier? Hmmp... ...sorry 54, couldn't remember who's car, or what year it was but at least I remembered digging it! Seems like 38P6 is looking for a stance similar to yours. Not radical, but more idealized, like how the cars looked in advertising images from the day... envisioned by designers as being lower than they actually were.
I'll try to get some pictures up soon, I can't seem to find any right now. Maybe I'll take a couple from underneath so you can get a better idea of what it looks like. I'd love to see some pictures of late 30's 4doors that have been dropped. I rarely see any around here. I "think" the the axles are underneath the springs, I'll check it later.
If your front axle is under the springs, you may be able to put the axle on top of them so the springs ride underneath. Econoline guys do that to get them low. And of course, lowering blocks. You can also remove leaves. One or two at the most. take apart the spring pack and remove leaves in an "every-other" fashion starting with the first spring after the main one. But like I said, just a few. I had a stack of 5 or 6 on the rear of my 50 Chevy and I took out 3 for a drop of a couple inches. In some cases you can flip the shackles to lower a little more, but I don't know without seeing your setup.
Well I discovered good news and bad news when I looked under the car. The rear should be simple to do with lowering blocks. The front is going to be hard, the axle is under the springs and theres no room to flip it to the top. I think I need dropped spindles or a dropped axle. I also found in my shop manual where it showed 1938 was the last year for leaves up front, they switched to coils in 1939. Hopefully these pictures work. The quality isn't as good as I hoped for and it was raining like hell outside so the cars in the garage. I will get better ones sometime.
hey! that's a nice looking car. i like your idea to keep it simple and mostly stock. to get your front end down, you need to drop the axle and install lowering springs. several hambers can drop your axle. ***us and elpolacko come to mind. i'm sure there are others. do a search on the board. for the drop springs, you should consider finding a monoleaf spring. the monoleaf will lower your ride height in two ways -- like any other drop spring, it'll have less arch. in addition to that, the spring pack will be thinner because you're only dealing with one leaf. that will drop your car an inch in itself. also make sure the new spring has reversed eyes. blocks and/or lowering springs in the back to match. i'd also consider disc brakes and a dual reservoir master cylinder. to me those are both mandatory upgrades for any full-fendered old car. check out plydo for parts. the website doesn't have anything on it, but you can call for a catalog. butch's rod shop used to sell plymouth parts, but they've since gone out of business. they later reopened under a different name.. i don't remember what the new name was... something cheesy like death row rods or something like that.
The drum brakes actually work pretty good but I wouldn't mind discs up front if It's possible. Where would I look for a replacement front springs and how do I determine the weight it would need to be? I'm considering pulling a leaf or two but I noticed the springs are wrapped in metal and theres so much old grease on them I couldn't see how they come off.
I'll never endorse mono's on the front of any car or truck. They'll lower your car but also have some serious drawbacks... ****ty ride quality being the least serious and potential failure being the most. If a rear spring fails, you'll grind to a nasty stop, but if the front goes down it could potentially wrap the axle under and catapult you and your soon-to-be coffin like Roscoe hitting a hay bale... cool, huh? Reverse the eyes on your main leaf and maybe pull two or so leafs out... much safer and better ride than monos = Yeah, sooo... it sounds like a drop axle is going to be your cheapest & easiest option. I'd recommend Loudpedal as he did my F-100 front end... magnafluxed and shipped (he's in Salt Lake City) for less than anyone else I found. Yours might require a new fixture being that it's kind of an oddball part... Maybe check with Cen-Pen speed shop as they're at least closer (PA) and if they can't do it they might recommend someone who can. I can't see that pic too well... squinting, but that's not a tube axle is it? That would complicate matters...
OK, I have to show my ignorance now. What does it mean to reverse the springs and how do you do it? My previous experience was limited to 70-73 camaro's and chevy engines. The whole mopar thing from the 30's has me lost but I'm trying. I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. I'll try to post the pic again.........
check with plydo for the mono's. they might also have a disc brake kit. if tinman's post skeered you, you should be able to find a local spring shop that can either make you a new de-arched spring with reversed eyes or do the same modifications to your present stuff. also, check with posie's for the springs. i'm pretty sure they can do something for you. or maybe espo for the springs. they make a lot of custom stuff at reasonable prices. i had a set of thier leaves on the back of my fairlane. oh, check with scarebird for a disc brake conversion. he's on this board and here's his website
There was a thread on here not too long ago where someone had reversed their own spring using pressure. Basically, if you look at your spring from the bottom of the car, the spring eyes (the round hole where the bushing and bolt go through that connects the spring to the shackle) points toward the frame. This means that the spring itself is on the bottom side of the eye. By reversing the eye, the spring is on the topside of the eye, and thus lowers your car the height of the eye itself. To do this, you need to remove the main leaf from the spring pack, and use pressure and force (hammer) bend the arch so that it arches in the opposite direction. catch my drift? take a peice of paper. hold both ends so it sags in the middle...like your spring. now manipulate the paper so it has a lunp in the middle...that's what you need to do to your spring. hope this helps.
Here's the thread i was talking about.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90824&highlight=reverse+your+own+spring+eyes and you might want to check out this one too. There's some good resources in it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102498&showall=1
I just read that thread, I'm wondering since I have 7 leaves if removing just 1 or 2 might do it. There isn't much arch to the springs now they are almost flat. I searched around and can't find anything that talks about taking the spring pack apart. Mine are wrapped in metal so I can't see how they are held together. Is it simple enough to take them apart so I could try a couple different heights? Sorry about all the questions........
the springs in my '31 chevy were flat like that. the bad news is that once you remove too many leaves, the pack will start to arch up in a bad way. try one or two though and see where it leaves you (no pun intended). removing leaves is easy and you can do it with the car still mostly ***embled. you'll need to remove the u-bolts that hold the axle to the spring and rest the axle on jackstands to get it out of the way. once you've done that, start with one spring and put two c-clamps in the center of the spring near the spring bolt. with the clamps in place, remove the spring bolt and then slowly work the clamps loose a quarter turn each until the leaves are unsprung. add/subtract leaves, clamp them back together, put the bolt in, bolt your axle back on, and check to see if you like it. remember to bounce the car a few times to settle the leaves. before having the eyes reversed, make sure you have enough clearance between the spring and the frame.
I'm not sure why monos up front wouldn't scare someone. If someone is willing to do a dual resevoir master & disc set-up, why would one then install a completely inferior suspension system? Not trying to be a **** at all here, it just doesn't follow logic... I even asked Spock and he's stumped. It doesn't look like you have much room to mess with those springs before they hit the frame. ...if the axle's not a tube, drop it and be done.
I'm starting to think I beter just leave the suspension alone for now until I can have someone look at it in person and tell me how it should be done. I don't want to screw anything up and I have no experience doing anything like this. I am concerned about removing leaves and having the spring bend the opposite direction. Does anyone live in the Finger Lakes Region? I may do a cruise tomorrow night in Canaindagua, maybe I'll come across someone there who can give me some advice. I appreciate all the help....
i guess because i've had brakes fail, but never a spring. by the way, when did i ever claim to be logical?
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