Opinions: 1934 Frame for Early Hemi - Lengthening the Front

Hey Gang: I am collecting all the pieces/parts/material to start the construction of a new 1934 frame for my highboy coupe project. Just received the American Stamping rails -- and also bought a spare set of the front 4 feet (replacement horns). Have the I-Beams to build a frame jig, etc.. --- ready to get started!

My issue is that it is a real bitch to fit a blown early Hemi in a 34 chassis -- even with major engine set back, there just isn't room for the 3" blower pulleys in front, with a v-belt pulley, etc.. I don't want to hang the lower pulley above the cross-member . . . looks like crap having the enigne that high in the chassis. Also, when you set the engine 6" back, the rear of the valve covers end up way inside the cowl - making it dang near impossible to remove them . . . and I don't like the look either. Then there is the issues of brake/clutch pedal setup, room for headers, etc..

So - my idea is to add about 3" of overall length to the front of the frame - in the area between where the cowl bolts down and the front cross-member. Mid way between the two, the frame is pretty staight and a consistent size --- looks like a good place ot add my 3 inches. It is a highboy, so I won't have to rework the fenders. I am going to have a custom aluminum hood made anyway -- need a single top piece for the blower scoop to stick out of, etc..

Anyway - have any of you seen a mod like this done before or done it yourself? It seems like a good idea to me -- and since I'm building a frame from scratch, now is the time to ponder it. I think it will make it so much easier to work on the engine and visually it will look a whole heck of alot better. Since I'm making all the hairpins myself - everything will align the way I want it . . . most people will probably not even be able to tell what was done to make the engine fit better.

All idea and opinions welcome . . . will post the fabrication and construction work on the HAMB - may help the next poor bastard like me

Dale

 

Yesterday I wrote some negative things about '40 ish front ends in '32's.I think it might work in this case. You might have room to use the front mounted spring . This would move the crossmember forward enough for your pullys. I would hope you don't end up lengthing the frame. I like the proportions of the cars as they are.

 

That sure upsets those neat propotions of a stocker but not near as bad as moving the grille way forward. Have you studied the old Mooneyham & Sharp car?

 

I agree, lengthening doesn't look so good.
My buddy and I just built my 34 in 5 days as I did'nt have a hot rod on the road, just a stock 29. Many things were done incorrectly to get this car on the road for summer. Plan is to get back into it this winter or after I finish my 32. The 32 will not be rushed, I work on it a little at a time, nights or weekends.

My motor is too high, hate it. My firewall was recessed, love it.
But once the body comes back off when the season is over, gonna do it correctly with all the original beads back in the firewall. There is a pic on a Rod n Custom cover where I believe the guy did a nice job of it. Someone has to have a pic of it. Still may not be your style, I personally like it, hugs the motor.

The frame I used also was shortened 9 inches, hate it. We moved my front crossmember forward to make a couple inches up, quick fix. Still too short, but the car is on the road...

You should build your car they you want, she yours...

Almost did'nt post as its really up to you, but no one was helping ya yet... and we all need a little help from our friends. Every car is a different application I find, so I learn something new each build. I'd ask some guys that have some more 34 knowledge. maybe Kiwi Kev, Vern Tardel, Peter Flaven. All nice guys that have a lot more knowledge then I've got.

Have you mocked her up yet? Never know, sometimes it works...

Good luck, hope you find your anwsers.

 

it fits without alot of set back, lots of room for a blower drive,but its a 315 dodge. anyway my 392 with donovan rocker covers is 31'' at the widest point and 25'' from the back of the block to the front of the damper.the dodge is 30'' wide and 24'' back of block to damper. the fire wall is set back 4''. the inside firewall is 33 1/4''

 

The 554 had the front axle moved forward some time in it's history. Looks like a fabricated crossmember mounted a few inches ahead of stock. In my opinion a better look than stretching the frame rails. Of course it had the engine set back under the cowl but there was enough room for the blower drive, a fuel tank behind the grill and space in between. I wouldn't hesitate to cut the firewall to fit a Hemi but I know that idea's been pummeled on here before.

 

I carefully removed the stock firewall -- was a better idea to keep it than hack it up. I then bought a Bitchen big-block firewall -- with quite a bit of setback. I have not mocked everything up as of yet, but with initial measurements, there is not enough room in front of the block for the drive to fit -- need just over 8" from the front of the block to the front of the blower pulley. I have lots of work to do to validate everything and make the final decision, but I'd rather leave the cross-member, grille and front measurements in a stock configuration, as I don't like the look of moving the cross-member and grille forward . . . like to see the front frame rails sticking out as they should.

Lots of ways to skin the cat . . . appreciate all the opinions on this. Anybody else want to chip in?

Dale

 

The grill on the 554 isn't moved forward, it still ran a stock hood top and sides. Just the front axle was moved. Search Mooneyham and Sharp on here. Levis Classic started one thread with lots of pics.

 

I have '31 sedan on '32 rails. Firewall in stock location, but room for 315 hemi made by setting front crossmember forward of stock location. Maybe do a little of that and a little firewall recess. Them you're not burying the motor in the cowl.

 

There was a 34 that one of the big time customizers had a hand in. Forget his name right now. It was a gold coupe and they made a flat firewall for that car. Looked really good. When I say flat firewall I mean they took the hoodline at the cowl and made the firewall about 2 inches foreward of that. It layed back and followed what would be the hoodline. Sorta hard to explain but it looked good and made lots of room for the motor.
Clark

 

I have built three 33-34 Fords, and seen thousands of pictures of that vintage over the years. They just don't look right with a stretched frame.

 

If you can measure - can you get me the distance from the front of the block face - to the edge of the front cross-member? If it is an original cross-member, then maybe two dimensions --> one to the lower edge and one to the middle/centerline? Just want to see what you have as compared to what my dimensions are telling me.

Thanks!

Dale

 

Have you considered switching to a 2" drive? That would give you an extra inch right there and look a little more trad. I'm trying to put together enough pieces to do a blown 354 for my next car, and I'm going to go with a 2" wide 1/2" pitch Gilmer drive.

If all you need is three inches, I'd move the front crossmember forward 1", switch to a 2" drive, and make up the rest in the firewall area. Don't stretch the frame...you'll regret it. However, 1" pushed forward on the front axle on a fenderless car might actually help the proportions slightly.

 

Moving the cross member forward is no problem - since I'm building the frame starting with new rails. This will move the grille forward the same amount - as it is located on the front of the cross-member. This approach, combined with the firewall setback may get me enough space - so I'll definitely check it out. I was pondering some work on the front frame horns (cross-member forward) - will probably lengthen then a bit (more like a 32) and fill the insides using the outsides from the spare front frame rails that I purchased from AMS.

I still don't like having the valve covers recessed in the firewall, but there isn't much I can do about that - if I choose to not lengthen the frame. It seems that everybody is against lengthening the frame - that the resulting "look" is bad. If it turns out that I need another inch or so - I may still lengthen the frame - as nobody is going to notice that small of a difference by eyeballing it.

Thanks!

 

If you do lengthen the frame,you can also change
the angle on the grill shell to help disguise the changes.

Most people's eyes will be drawn to the blower anyway.

 

I have the motor out now, mabe i'll slide the 392 in and take some measurements

 

sissy

 

That would be way cool if you have the time! Thanks!

Dale

 

One thing you could do is tack weld the extra rail sections onto the outsides of your full length rails, add the body on top of them, place your grill shell where its going to be, and then add the motor into place where its going to ride. Step back, take a look, and see what you think.

In all reality, there are only going to be a few who would actually notice the change, but there'll be more who will now because of this thread. Your choice of wheels, color, and that shiny chicken cooker on top of the motor will most certainly draw the eye away from minor frame modifications. I'd definitely make it your own, and do what makes you like it the best.

Also, if you recess into the firewall, how much does this affect your planned clearances for legroom and other things like brake, clutch, and/or go pedals?

 

I see you've gotten a lot of input, but at the end of the day it's your rod and it has to "do it" for you - not us. Some like their women heavy on top; some on bottom. I happen to be working on a '29 roadster on '32 rails, and they will be streached in the engine bay to help get some room. I do not want to set the firewall back and lose any foot area. Plus I personally like the longer wheelbase.

 

Dale I emailed you sme pictures of a streched 34.

 

Howdy Dale , just a thought , my '29 phone booth pick up on '32 rails , blown '58 354 and top loader , I didnt want the bulk of the engine inside the firewall ( need all the interior space we can get ) in order to fit the drive etc at the front and not wanting to extend the chassis , looks bad , I had already made adaptors and fitted the chevy BB water pump , but what I am doing now is removing the water pump and shortening the blower drive , so the bottom pulley and belt will ride up against the smoothed and flattened timing cover , saving a bunch of room , will be using a remote water pump off something , to sit under the left engine mount , also making a front driven 440 dissy , off the cam , hard to get stuff over here , thats why I'm makin' mine , early fueler blower drives etc , should be plentyful in your neck of the woods , no photos , I got the car blown apart , but will do when I get it back together .......Steve in Oz

 

Good suggestions, input and ideas. I think I'll mock everything up, see how far the engine needs to go back, etc.. Since I have a completely stock 34 rolling chassis (for my flathead setup), I can compare everything one way versus the other. I will probably end up with my engine room coming from 2 or 3 places --> the firewall setback, maybe the cross-member being moved forward an inch or so and potentially some limited stretch in the frame rails. It all has to fit -- and I'm not the first guy with a Hemi and a shoe horn.

I'll update this thead when I'm in the mockup/prototype stage.

THANKS to all!

Dale

 

I really like seeing a guy planning a build when he has an open mind about how he is going to build his ride. He's getting lot's of opinions, not accepting anybodies rules, and not just copying others . There is nothing wrong with buying parts or getting ideas from other people or their cars.
Remember to build your car for you and every body else can like it or not. I think this is going to be a sweet piece. THUMBS UP!!

 

Thanks for the perspective and words of wisdom . . . much appreciate it and all the others who have taken the time to ponder my build and the challanges I face!

Dale

 

lots of cars we lust after have been stretched in front............use your eyeball and work with ALL of the elements in mockup.

I also like Bass narow belt idea.....alot.

 

Hello..Here is a 241 Dodge going into a 1935 Ford..Moved the tranny, 350 Turbo forward 1"..Tight fit but no firewall cutting..
A 315 Dodge, thats the same size as the 241 and 270 but with a high deck??
Duane

 

i had a similar problem when i put a 368 linc in my 34 i also am installing as we speak a mc culloch blower which has a pulley that sticks out another 2 " or so the coupe already had a bitchin small block fire wall installed amd im a little tall and like leg room so messing with the fire wall wasn't a option i move the front spring perch crossmember forward 6 inches along with the radiator grill shell car rides handle decent no appearant problems doing it this way un less your gonna be full fendered i just how need to have a hood top made or try to make one myself john

 

I Was At Barrett Jackson Several Years Ago And In The Show Area Was A 32 Roadster Built In The 40's, Stretched What Must Have Been A Foot To Accomodate A Straight Eight Duesenberg Engine. Way Way Cool. First Time I Ever Saw A $400,000 Engine In A Rod

 

Thanks! FlatDog sent me some pictures of your coupe -- looks like a fun project and a unique setup (which is cool). I'd love to see it when it is complete (not that they ever really are ).

Take er' easy . . . Dale