I know a lot of guys on here have come up with some really unique stuff so I thought I might give it a shot here. I've got an idea I'd like to Patent and Trademark. The TM portion is easy, I found a company online that'll do it for roughly $400. It's the patent I'm having a hard time with and I do NOT want to use a company that has commercials on TV, like Patent People, or whatever they are called. In short, has anyone on here successfully filed a patent? If so, pointers, referals to a patent lawyer, etc. I'm not going to tip my hand but I've got an idea that is related to our hobby. Ryan/Mods- lock'er up if you deem it inappropriate
You may want to look into getting a Provincial Patent Application. What it does is allow you to lay claim to your idea earlier than it would othertwise take. As I recall it is "good" for one year and during that time you have "patent pending" rights. Which means you can disclose it with less risk. You could use that year to see how viable your idea is before sinking lots of dough needed for the real McCoy. Last time I got one a PPA was something like 50 or 75 bucks. EDIT: BTW Trade marking is very different from getting a Patent
You should do an on-line search first. This is to see if some body has patented it allready. It is also useful in determining "prior art". Your patent will have examples of the prior art to show in comparison to what you propose. Fun to look anyway. Good luck
I did a google patent search and it came up blank with several different key search words so from what I can tell it's still out there for me to grab. HemiRambler, any idea on how to get the ball rolling on the PPA? PM me if you're more comfortable. thanks
Not trying to be a downer, but just some info for you. From my understanding, gettings a full patent is expensive and time consuming. That wouldnt really be a problem because the rights are then yours- The problem is fighting people who infringe on your patent. You will wind up fighting a long court battle and spending alot of money. Not trying to be a jerk, just know what you are getting into. Especially for a product that could be easily duplicated. Good luck and hope you make tons of cash with it!!!
I have a patent, but it is owned by the company I work for. I also know others that have them. Do not mess with any of the online BS. Do a search and find a reliable patent attorney. If something goes wrong or you feel someone infringes on your patent, you want to be able to sit down with someone face to face. I doubt you will ever find an office for the online guys and you'll have to start from scratch. The process can be expensive, but not nearly as expensive as defending it. If you feel someone stole your idea, you have to fund going after them. Right or wrong if you run out of money...guess what...you loose. My advice if you are doing it as a hobby or fun, just do it, some will try and copy it if it is not too expensive for them to do. But if you want to get RICH!!! Talk to an attorney, find some investors that can help with the financial portion of the venture. Ill give you one example then shut up. I have a friend that invented the machine that spiral cuts whole potatoes that are fried and sold at carnivals, fairs etc. He makes the machines himself as a hobby did not patent them, started selling them for $250 each over the last 10 or so years he has had to keep demand down by raising the price. Even though many have knocked it off, he has sold thousands of them now at $700 each...he is still *****ing that demand is still too high, many customers come back because his are high quality and he treats them right. Jimmy
Better Business Bureaus (BBB) in Jersey should have some patent lawyers available for comment. Its best to find someone that has experience in the field your patent is in. I second the provisional patent route. Allows for safety. But remember, if you feel its worth patenting, its worth getting good ***istance. You want to protect as much as you can. Jon
I may try to go with a Trademark first and see how I make it. I can setup a website in a matter of hours or days, get a paypal link tied in and I'm in business.
This is the way to go! I manufacture automotive specialty tools and we do this immediately. It gets you 12/months and the right to "patent pend". I will tell you that from my experience and "check approving" it will cost a hell of alot more than $400.00 to get the outright patent. good luck
the $400 was just for the trademark, I know the actual patent will cost significantly more than that. Do you get the Pat Pend directly from the .gov site or are you using a lawyer in the initial steps?
For simple proof, to protect yourself.......draw your idea up really nice & sign & date it......then take to post office & mail it to yourself certified to where you have to sign to receive it. Then do not open the letter. Just keep it or set it in your safe deposit box. Then go about trying to do the patent / trademark thing legally. The letter you mailed yourself, has your written description, a drawing or two, it's unopened, and it has an office post office stamp showing the date. I used to do this with demo tapes all the time with a band I was in. It helps. Carl Hagan
Get the investors/backing. I had an idea and developed it myself went to patent it and found out I was in the big leagues. $40,000 Why? Cause You have to patent your idea, then every other way it could possibly be done, it's called locking it up. Companies will cross engineer to get the final product without using your exact mechanism or process, and someties they'll take the risk that you can't afford to fight them legally and will go away for (small) compensation. If the idea is worth it, then you'll get the backing. It just takes time and effort. But you're right to stay away from invent-tech and the other companies. They are flat out scams. They are always one step ahead of the law. They take you're idea and go to a "trade show" that consists of themselves in a room in a hotel, where they have a meeting. They take out a small ad a day or so before that says "trade show this weekend". That way they're not technically ripping you off. Yeah right. They tell you you idea was good and they need ten grand to devolop the idea. ***holes.
I don't have a huge amount of experience with patents, but I have several in my name that were ***igned to my employer and one that I secured for myself. Here are several observations that may be useful to you: 1. Getting a trademark protects the name of your idea, and perhaps its logo, but it does not protect the idea itself. Somebody can copy your product and, unless they attempt to use your name too, you can't stop them. 2. Patent attorneys, searchers, and patent draftsmen (two more services you may need) are very expensive, and in my experience most of them are hacks. To get a utility patent will cost you several thousand dollars; I haven't done it recently, but I'll bet it will total something like $5 thou by the time it's issued. 3. It's also a very slow process. If you use professional help, it will probably be more than a year from the time you start until a patent is issued to you. 4. Many, if not all, of the steps that the professionals take you through can be done by yourself. I have never attempted to do this, but there are books on the subject. A**** the expensive parts of the process is the "search" -- this means going through existing patent files, looking for those that are the same or similar to yours. If the search turns up previous patents covering the same idea in the same field, your application will be denied. You can do some or all of the search yourself, saving the money that you would be paying to the searcher, but it will be very time consuming. 5. A "utility patent" covers a real invention, like a new mechanism, process, or (I think) chemical formula. A "design patent" covers the physical appearance of the item. Design patents are easier and quicker to get, but in my experience they are not worth the money. It's very easy for an unscrupulous copyist to design around your patented design, and make something that's just a little different. What JJ Mack wrote is true. Your commercial success will be more dependent on your getting the idea to market, pricing it at a level that makes it unattractive for somebody to knock your off, and producing and distributing it efficiently enough to keep the pipeline filled. Easier said than done. The point is this: if you have a really groundbreaking idea, the kinds of stuff that made Thomas Edison and Bill Gates rich, go for it. If it's just a nice little idea for a tool or an aftermarket accessory, the patent probably won't pay for itself.
Another note on Design patents- I used to work for a company that made car audio equipment- I'll leav them nameless. They made a speaker that had an internal chamber similar to the BOSE wave radio without knowing it. Bose SUED and WON. One of the Lawyers at th company I worked for, In retaliation filed multipl DESIGN patnts for possible future designs of the BOSE radio. rounded the design and changed little stuff. So if BOSE ever changed their radio in a similar fashion, the company could sue them back. Waste of company money on revenge.
Couple of points to add: on the "provincial"... I think you meant a "Provisional Application". Basically, it's a temporary application that just gets your foot in the door, so to speak. Those can be fairly sloppy and don't need a lot of rhetoric. But once you file one, you have 1 year to file the real application before it expires. It can be expensive as hell, but if your idea is worth more, then it pays for itself. You don't have to build a thing... get the patent application filed, then sell the license to use it to someone or sell the rights to them outright. You don't necessarily have to have the granted patent to be able to wheel and deal it. But man I would find a decent patent attorney to work on it - a good one will do a more exhaustive prior art search, refer to any prior art that's similar in your application, and draw up distinctions between that and your invention. They also will make sure the claims are correct so the patent is worth something and is defensible (if someone infringes, sometimes their defense is to try get your patent stuck down). I know our company has a group of patent lawyers in Princeton... I know one who might even be cool enough to moonlight. But none of them are cool enough to work for free. P.S. Ditto on the timeline. Mine at work all took 2-3 years to grant. One of them took 4.
50Fraud covers this subject very well. And the last paragraph sums up the whole QUESTION perfectly. Coming up with something NEW or DIFFERENT now days is difficult. If it hasn't been sold yet; SOMEONE just might have the "Unopened envelope" in a safety box! Hell; a number of years ago, there was discussion about closing the New York Patent Office; they figured everything worth inventing, had already been invented!!
Boozoo, is RIGHT I meant Provisional Patent!!!!! Forgive me - it's been a LONG time since I fooled with those!!!!
You can get a utility patent for as little as $500 if you do everything yourself. You can do an online search at http://www.uspto.gov/ , But it only goes back to 1972. To do a thorough search you'll need to go to Crystal city in DC and do your own search (it's just a huge room full of computers), or hire someone to do it for you. You're in Jersey so it's not too far for you to go if you decide to do it yourself. There's a book out called "Patent it yourself" by David Pressman which I highly recommend even if you're not going to do it yourself, since it gives you a very good idea of what to expect. If you do decide to do it yourself, you must really study this book, and anything else you can find, including reading as many patents as you can to learn the principles and legal language necessary to write a successful patent. You'll also have to do drawings, that must be done according to the patent office guidelines. But remember, if you do it yourself you're on your own, and it could be a big mistake, on the other hand, Lawyers are expensive, and usually are not the most trustworthy people you'll meet, so it's a tuff call. I think it's best to at least try to do your own, then when you're certain it's perfect, take it to a Patent Attorney and let him check it out and make recommendations. Good luck.
I went the patent route with an invention I had when doing consulting work for a small but visible gov't agency. My intial patent search online looked promising. The attorney's patent search guys found what I found and many more related patents that had eluded my search. $700 later, no patent because one part of my invention was cited in another patent that did a FEMA Failure Expected Mode ****ysis of a device virtually the same as mine and proved that its failure rate was too high and their next generation design was superior (which is why my device didn't show up in the patents.) What the others have said about "locking up" is on target. I ultimately abandonded the remaining novel aspects of my device and process because even if i could secure a single patent, It would be too easy to copy and I could not "lock it up". The $700 was the best money I ever spent to get nothing because it ultimately saved me thousands in chasing after a goal I could not possess. The invention is still in my "sealed envelope " of a computer and I have since come up with a third generation design that improves on the other group's design and the flaws I think are in it. Once again, I would hire the best patent attorney and his or her best staff. I would even consult with the attorney before filed the provisional patent because the downside of that provisional patent is that if you are one day later than 1 year on the filing of the true patent application the sharks that are out there can pick up your idea as abandoned, tweek it and go off to the races with it and you have no recourse because technically you "abandonded" the idea. I would not waste time and money on a trademark. Without a design patent and an established market, a trademark is useless an unenforceable.
I have a few patents, but they belong to my employer. It's a really long drawn out process getting the patents written up by the lawyers and you'll probably eat up over $10,000 to $20,000 just for the actual patent, but then the lawyer's fees keep piling up to six figures pretty quick -- filing for foreign patents, negotiating with companies who license the patents, etc. Then if people steal your idea, the cost of enforcing the patents shoots way up there. Even if you pay the big bucks to get it patented, you still would have to fight people who steal your patents, and worry about people in other countries patenting it too. The money can wind up piling up to hundreds of thousands of bucks worth of lawyers fees. It's better sometimes to find an honest company who will make a deal with you and put the burden of patenting it and enforcing the patent on them. You might want to hire a patent lawyer to help you figure out how to prove the date that you came up with the idea and then set up a disclosure statement so that you can talk to a certain company about it without risking their just stealing the idea from you. If you make a good deal, the patent problems will be theirs, and you will wind up with royalties or an up-front payment to you, or a combination of royalties and up front payments. Sometimes it might just be easier to start making and selling the thing you patented and get a head start against all the companies who will be stealing your idea. Then at least you can always call it "the original ...." If the patent is for a tool, Lisle tools makes a bunch of tools that were invented by amateurs, and I heard they have some sort of invention disclosure program. I'd still get some proof of the date you invented it first because you will need that if you ever wind up having to enforce your patent. Do a lot of research first because it'll save you a lot of time with the patent lawyers.
You actually have some protection with the disclosure waivers if they are done right. Again a little money spent with a quality patent attorney can help you draw up a disclosure statement with some real protection for you. PM me if you want the number of the attorney I used. he's based out of Atlanta, but the nature of the business is such that the best have essentially an international clientele wherever they have their home base. Again, forget the trademark path. Who cares if it says Sears craftsman, Edelbrock or your name? You will know. And those in the know will know. No one has heard of my little brother by name, but he was one of the guy's Dodge called when the first aluminum block Viper motors were having notorious oil consumption problems. He told them what to fix without a patent process. That was before he finished his engineering degree. He doesn't build motors anymore and spends his time at a computer designing aftermarket accessories for a major manufacturer. Now his name is on some of those patents but people still don't know his name. But if you had a cigarette boat with dual 1200 hp blown bigblock all aluminum motors, then you probably would have some of his stuff and his trademark is only his well deserved reputation.
from my own experance i`d say unless your trying to patent something no one else has, not just a remake or design change of an existing product then i wouldn`t bother, if there is an existing product that is similar on the market you wont get a patent, if its just the design you want to patent then any little change made you your design will get around your patent, if it were posable to patent a 2 wheel vehicle that you peddled with your feet then you would have something, you would rule the world in the country the patent is in, i have a friend who had a number of patents that he tried to defend from infringement and it cost him in the hundreds of throusands and didnt stop anyone, something like 600 infringements in total, but a trademark is a different story, thats alot easyier to defend and if its catchy and becomes what a tool is called then everyone will wants one. the estamit i have to take over my friends trademark is around $10,000 and i think thats a deal, i went with the best firm in the country and when they walk into a court room i will feel i have the best chance, i hope that because of who there are will stop any infringement on the tradmark before it ever gets to court.
I'd say it was a few years ago... "Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, U.S. Commissioner of Patents, in 1899 (this is actually a myth)
I went to the Patent Office trying to register some of my inventions. I went to the main desk to sign in and the lady at the desk had a form that had to be filled out. She wrote down my personal info and then asked me what I had invented. I said, "A folding bottle." She said, "Okay. What do you call it?" "A Fottle." "What else do you have?" "A folding carton." "What do you call it?" "A Farton." She s******ed and said, "Those are silly names for products and one of them sounds kind of crude." I was so upset by her comment that I grabbed the form and left the office without even telling her about my folding bucket.
I would do a "poor boy patent" until you can get a real patent. Do a write up, include drawings and date each piece of paper. then get 3 or 4 reliable middle aged friends to sign and date each piece of paper. then put all the papers in a big thick envolope and take it to the post office and mail it to yourself. When you get it in the mail don't open it. If someone markets your idea the date on the postage should hold up in court as long as you don't open the envolope. Could be helpful to prove you thought of it first. Might work, might not. The company might pay you to go away. At the very least you may be able to get an injunction against the company until you go to court, that should be enough that the company will settle.
Great advice here, especially 50 Fraud. IF you are going to go through with the utility patent after doing the provisional, try and do it yourself. You will need to do a pretty thorough search but this can be done fairly easily at uspto.gov The thing that I have found is the technical writing of a patent (see Laywer speek) can be daunting. I have had an attorney do the actual writing of the final patent and then done the drawings myself to save some money. Even then, my utility patent was denied. Sometimes it really depends on the individual who is reviewing the patent and their interpretation. I had done the provisional and had been selling the item for some time when it was denide, so I just dropped it and kept selliong the item. So far so good. I have done Design patents as well, and as stated previous, they really aren't worth it. In each case, I used a book called "Inventors Guide to Successful Patent Applications" by Thomas E. DeForest. It helped out alot. Good luck.
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