Help Please- Falcon Gasser & Can I build a strong 327 without breaking the bank?

I don't know about any other part of the country,around here a Falcon w a SBC is nothing short of the fullest meaning of the term - Traditional, God! I remember at least 15 in Mn built this way ,6 right in St Cloud. One called Lightfoot I think was SCARY fast and street legal! still around far as I know. SBC's rule then and now for bang per buck - mopars break, Fords break the bank and both suck when it comes to swapping. Easy cheap power ? Mount a stock 4V 460 ford or a 500 Caddy and go racing, But that said. Build your car your way, screw the purists and do your SBC ,Every brand of motor out there is competitve w enough Cash + skill , Hows that for stirring the pot?

 

That Falcon isn't much different than a Chevy II. A buddy of mine has a '67 Chevy II with an Isky rollered 11:1 327, stock 461 casting heads and 4 speed that'll run 11's easy if it ever hooked up.

-Troy

 

"And for the record.... gassers didn't start using other engines just because willys didn't have a HEMI... sheesh are you serious? One reason so many fords got other engines is cause The original Henry was a cheap bastard and hung on to the flathead too damn long while everyone else was moving on to higher HP and overhead valves. You honestly think a drag racer would stick with a 100hp starting point when he could drop in an olds with 135hp in 1949? in '53 Olds had 165hp for still had 105 or so. Caddy had 160hp in '49."


Just want to point out a fact. I know those can be so inconveniant at times. Ford did'nt hang onto the Flathead for too long because Henry I was too cheap.Henry died in 1947. Ford held onto the Flathead because there was not enough resorces available to develop the`49 Ford, Merc and Lincoln AND the OHV V8 at the same time. Most car companies went belly up during those times. Ford had ohv's on the drawing board right after the war. We all know they built the best ohv tank engine in the GAA, which was a 4- valve V8. Furthermore I hold no delusions as to why it went down the way it did when GM brought in the overheads in `49. Were not talking about 1949 here. We were talking about a mid-`60's gasser. That era was was the time period shortly after the so- called AMA ban on manufacturer race activities. You know the one I'm talking about. That's where GM got the other two Ford and Chrysler to abandon racing for public safety reasons, meanwhile Chevy and Pontiac were assholes and elbows trying to play catch up and funneling all the race stuff through the"back door". Kinda like an autiomotive version of Pearl Harbor. When Henry II got pissed off he decided to kick ass and that he did, all over the globe. The car magazines and the sanctioning bodies then found ways of making sure the sbc could compete either by weight breaks or handicapping.

 

First off... what a cool Falcon!

Secondly... there's no substitute for cubes when it comes to horsepower... so, ditch the 327 in favor of MORE CUBES!

I like 383's... a solid little 383 with forged pistons, a hydraulic lifter cam, 10:1 compression, headers, intake, a 750 double pumper... and a good set of Dart heads will get you in the 12's with traction.

Then buy the blue bottle and you're in the 11's... cheaply.

Also... go with a nice dual purpose rear end gear... 4.11's or 3.73's... and a 3000k converter in a TH350...

Recipe for fun.

Sam.

 

Ford guys are also really easy to spin up. Trust me, my old roomate was a dyed in the wool Ford nut. He didn't convert me, so I doubt anyone else will.
I am running my dad's old 60's gasser motor. It was a 265 Chevy a 55 block to boot, the very first OHV Chevy built. He ran it for years at the track in his......1936 FORD....GASP!!!

The way I see it, if Ford had built a better motor there would be tons of Camaros running Clevelands.

 

By the looks of the LS1 engines they are

 

Well, personally, I think you're on the right track. Sounds like you have all the parts needed to put this together and it also does'nt sound like this is going to be a full time race/bracket car. What converter stall and rear gear? My little 120" FED had the exact same 327 short block, redone 461X heads, Holley Strip Dominator intake, 750 Holley carb, a "mild" flat tappet mechanical cam, and an OLD SINGLE POINT distributor ( worn out at that). Powerglide trans with 4500 stall converter and a 4.10:1 Pont/Olds open rear with drum brakes. 9.23 E.T. @ 146 M.P.H. Essentially stock or out of the box parts. In your Falcon I'm sure my engine wound put you in the mid 11's. Keep it old school and if the racing bug really bites you then step up to a larger motor. I think you're on the right track! BUTCH.

 

Henry Floored...

I know it appears to you that putting a Chevy in a Ford is some sort of sin... and I'm sure you can go on and on on how Fords are better...

but right after you do that, then the Chevy guys will go on about how Chevies are better... and it'll just go on and on and on.

Why do that to us? And to yourself?

I'd like to help you come to a heightened sense of reality... and hopefully, you'll appear wiser to the rest of the rodding world if you take my advice:

Embrace diversity.

I'm not saying you have to fly the rainbow flag. I'm saying you should be proud that you like a motor that the majority isn't into AND realize it's place in hot rodding.

Sure the car would be "cooler" if it had an FE motor in it with a couple of carbs and a four speed.

But the REALITY is that not everyone has the money or the knowledge or the desire to take each project to a "correct" level of coolness...

When rodding, it's just as important to take in consideration the "financial" as well as the "end product" when assessings one's desired direction of said project.


In addition there's a rich HISTORY of putting SBC motors in EVERYTHING... so it just makes sense a lot of times.

I I mean, they have been sticking SBC motors in the Falcon platform since 1960 when then tech editor Wally Parks put a 265 in his '60 Comet.

Now think about it, this is a traditional hot rodding messageboard, based on tradition...

Sam.

 

Precisely Sam. You are right on target. Just because everyone's doing it does'nt mean it's not a shame though. Perspectives would change drastically if it were GM classics getting Ford transplants. When I first found this place I thought I could contribute based on my background. Now I realize that beating one's head against a wall hurts and feels better when you stop. I gotta go and fix my mower now. See ya later.

 

I'd go to the ironyard and yank out a Thunderbird Turbo-coupe's guts, and call it done... but I'm weird.

 

Mike,Carl, Myself and two of our buddies had much the same talk yesterday at the BadBoyz event, First I have to say that two of us are die hard ford guys (not me or Mike) , the general agreement was was that for a 52 up Ford guy its a total resto ,Custom w stock drive train,for Ford cars or a retro build (cloning T bolts - Mustang GT-- 427 Galaxies ) the cost of swapping or serious build of a ford drive train and be competitive is WAY past affordable for an at home builder. The Ford guys readily agreed to this, another guy who over heard us talking, walked up and chimed in proudly that his rod (1940 Ford coupe done in 1970) had F O R D power ,BUT less loudly. that his drag car was SBC'd AND his next rod will have a SBC ,he's quiting Ford drive trains. Too much cutting /hacking to get it there and NOTHING avail. for the swaps (I disagree w that last part these days)

 

A TBird Turbo-coupe here runs mid 10s in the 1/4 that falcon should fly with one. It has Ford light less cylinders and no carbs on the side.

 

Put a ford in it! I'm building a 50 shoebox as a gasser and am building a wild FE for it. Never put a chevy in a ford.

 

Dan, If that 327 can be freshened up I don't think you will have any problem achieving your goals. I've seen so many projects get sidelined by thinking MORE is better. I'm a car guy 1st and a Ford guy 2nd (learned that when I was Rep'n Hot Rod parts). I have a 2960 lb car, 302 Ford built with 10:25 compression, stock rods (unbalanced), stock '72 heads that I ported (I'm no GURU) and installed 351W valves, Comp roller tip rockers, solid lifter cam (pinned rocker studs), Edelbrock Perf RPM intake, 650 DP Holley. The car has run 11.67 with a 4 speed, 4:11 gears and 26" tires. I'm not trying to make this a 302 engine build post.... just showing that my engine shows to have 347 HP and you should be able to make that HP standing on your head. With that being said I'll add that I invested considerable time (tranny) and money (clutch) which is where I believe my gains where made. I'd make sure the rod bolts were good (check stretch) or replace with aftermarket bolts then have them resized which normally requires removing the pistons. No problem if the pins are Floated, could be a problem if they are pressed pins, I have heard of resizing the rods 'Big End' with the piston still attached I think your money would be better spent on your tranny, safety equipment, ignition ETC. As far as the tranny goes.....choose your convertor right and the Powerglide will think its a 4spd. Old tech was that in 1st gear 'stalled' (torque multiplied) is FIRST, 1st gear locked up is SECOND, 2nd gear stalled is THIRD and well you get the picture. Thats my 2 cents!

 

Put a Ford in it!

 

Absolutely possible my friend. I had a 55 bel air running a 350 with those heads and a barely streetable cam mated to a muncie rockcrusher with 4:11's in the back, with 1 leaf removed from the springs and some traction bars I turned low 12's no problem with street tires I'd let 5 lbs of pressure out of. I'd say that falcon is a bit lighter than my ol' chev.

 

I whole Heartdly agree.....

And did you know that Ford didn't charge the american tax paying public for many of the costs that the Ford Family Incured to Keep You Safe From the Nazis? We are taking billions of dollars in a 1940s economy that Henry Ford 'chipped In' for the sake of a people and a country that he loved.



But Yes,

It's true...

Chebby can build engines cheaper than Ford because they don't put any good alloys in them. There's no nickel or chromium added to the blocks so they have less strength and then they corrode faster as well as the lack of nickel causes the cylinder walls to wear faster and before you know it it's time for a rebuild of which chebby will gladly sell you all new parts again and again and again.

Grabs some fuckin balls and put a built sbf in it. It's Far superior engine that will hold together under much more hp (remeber the Nickel thing??)



Fuck chevrolet, They stand for Planned Obsolescence, Have since the 1920's. They want the car to wear out and fall apart early so that you will come back and buy another new car or a boatload of parts to fix your planned obsolescence every three years.

"""the classic juxtaposition of Henry Ford and the CEO of GM, Alfred Sloan as masters of Automotive History........ GM under Sloans Rule is synonymous with Planned obsolescence which acquired the ominous label "death dating" during the 1920's""""

Death Date = GM





? How will General Electric increase market share once every one has bought there light bulbs?
-Planned obsolescence, Build the light bulb to burn out faster yet advertise "Longer Lasting"..

? How will compaq increase market share once every one has bought there computers?
-Planned obsolescence, Build the computer using poor quality hard drives so it burns out faster yet advertise "More Power, Bigger Hard Drive"..

? How will Nuance increase market share once every one has bought their Over priced Stereo Speakers?
Planned obsolescence, Build the cross over network using smaller diameter wire so it shorts out sooner yet advertise "Sonic Quality"..

? How will General Motors increase market share once every one has bought there Chevy Trucks?
Planned obsolescence, Build the Transmissions and Rearends to be just barely adequate so that if you actually ask them to do any work they will fail and you'll buy a new tranny for $4500 From GM yet advertise "Longest Lasting Chevy Trucks" and sell them for a higher price under the assumption that you are getting a superior product because it costs several thousand more than a F150..



The Basic concept of Planned obsoscence is just that, Continually lie to the consumer, sell him a sub-poor quality vehicle and charge him a premium price. And to insure that your corporation continually grows, Design the life of the vehicle so that it will need on average 3 profitable $4500 transmissions over it's life time.


? If General motors vehicles or engines are so fucking shit hot, How come all you see is a couple million running Model As, Ts, and V8 Fords at the car shows. Answer, the GM vehicles lasted as long as they were designed to and they were fully scrap metal of which people got tired of putting new motors and trannnies into them long ago.
GM still uses the same principle today, Lie to the public and give them a sub standard part that YOU will pay to replace three times while GM Share Holders take your money for extra parts again and againuntil the vehicle is beyond repair or someone is tired of fixing it.



The proof of quality is in the history of what you see at car shows today, Hundreds of thousands of original 32 Fords and 40 Fords many with there original running bangers and Flatheads in them because someone was smart enough to have the balls to know quality when they saw it and not put a substandard shit block chevy in it that has no nickel in the poor quality cast block.



BTW, Did you know that GM built on average 2 vehicles to Ford's 1 from 1927 to 1954? It's True, GM outsold Ford/Lincon/Merc Two to One through the golden age of hot rodding..

? So Where the Hell are all the deuce Chevies and 40 Chevies?
Huh? There should be twice as many 32 GMs out there today if they had been worth more than the shit vehicles they are?.

Fuck I insulted myself with that one.. "Deuce Chevies" What a joke.




Go put a rust prone fast cylinder wall wearing 327 in it, see if I care.








rant off
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You can buy the valve-cover adapters from Speedway to use early covers on a late pair of center-bolt heads. Also, the heads can be redrilled and tapped to accept the early intake. Here's a photo of my 327 with aluminum LT-1 corvette heads and early staggered pattern valve covers and an old intake,,,even has the oil filler tube in it!
My machinist drilled the heads for me when doing the valves and the Speedway adapters cost about $45 a pair. Beware....big roller rockers won't work with these adapters. I had to go back to stamped-steel rockers.
Also, the adapters I bought had holes that wouldn't line up. Rather than admitting defeat, I made some aluminum studs and screwed them into the treaded hles in the adapters with loc-tite...re-drilled the adapters in the right spots and re-threaded the holes to fit my valve covers....damn cheap chinese crap!

 

SBCs kick ass.....end of story....thats why if you got to the track MOST of the fox body mustangs that are really fast got em in it....anywho...who cares both have there pros and cons.. You already got this motor...use it...> Get a set of Dart iron eagle heads... I think I spent right at 800 for a fully assembled set with good springs ready to bolt on, just add your rockers.. And thats brand new!

 

Cool Falcon!!!
Too bad this post is turning into another Holy War.............

 

I've been told the same.

 

Thanks alot and I agree. I didn't ask for advice IF I should do it, just how to best do it. Here are some of the parts I've gathered to make it happen. I don't have these same parts for another motor, just this one.

If my heads are expensive to freshen, I could see using some new aluminum ones. Aluminum can be painted. Sure would be easy to port match to the intake too....and they're lighter.

Dan

 

The Falcon may come in weighing 2600# running the Chevy etc.

Use the Chevy as is and don't spin it too high considering the bottom end.
Nothing lower than a 4.56 which will spin it pretty high anyway.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get 200 genuine HP out of the 327.

Assuming a 4.56 diff and 28" tall tire.

Running that and other HP figures in the 2600# Falcon, my whiz wheel shows:
200 HP = 101 mph @ 12.90.
250 HP = 107 mph @ 12.10.
300 HP = 109 mph @ 11.45.

101 mph = 5400 rpm
107 mph = 5800 rpm
109 mph = 5900 rpm

If the car comes in a 2800#:
200 HP = 97 mph @ 13.30.

I'd toss some other figures in, but I'm running out of time this morning.

In any event, you should be able to build what you have for way cheap.
Just run the heads you have - with a good valve job - and you'll be running approx what the early Chevy runners did back in the day.

Another day, some more $$ and another engine....

 

Go for it, that´ll make your 327 a great little screamer.

 

i agree with you!

 

Big former chevy guy here turned Ford junkie. I do have to say that it'd be cool with an FE in it, but I'll also have to admit that they're quite a bitch to work on, and a good deal more expensive than the 327 or a 400 sbc build. They're also a shitload heavier.

It's your car. Build it the way you want to. I've got ford power in a ford car. And it's got a ford transmission. That's broken. And expensive to fix. But it makes me happy, and at the end of the day, that's what this is all about, isn't it?

If it makes you happy, do it your way. It's gonna be a fast bird one way or another!

 

Just build it your way ,to hell with the rest of them. I`m a FORD guy with a straight axle `60 Falcon . It`s powered by Ford, because I`ve got several, Plus I like my Fords. But run what you have got only makes since money and time wise. Mine`s got a 351c with Hilborns and a Doug Nash 5 speed into a 9" with 4.86 Strange axles & spool. Hope you get done for the Hamb drags. Gasserman

 

Well, the aluminum head statement changes things. I thought you might be trying to do this on the ultra cheap. For less than the price of most aluminum heads, look at the Dart Iron Eagles. I have a pair of the 180's on my 327 that woke it up from the old 186 camel humps.

My combo:
327 @.030 over=331
6" rods, hyperutectic pistons, about 10.25:1
Iron Eagle Heads with zero work
Comp Cams XE274H, .487/.490 lift , 230/236@ .050
Edelbrock C26 with 2 Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs
MSD Pro Billit Distributer with MSD6AL box

Add that to the Muncie 4 speed, 4.10 gears and cheaters.

I built mine to be a street car that goes to the track. Made compromises along the way to keep it tame enough on the street, and with the look that I liked. (2 fours instead of 1 carb) I drive it to the track, run 12.80's, and most of the time drive it home.

Now, if you aren't planning on putting it on the street...

Bump the compression up a couple of points to 12-12.5:1
200cc Iron Eagle heads with a little port work
Comp Cams XE294 grind with .519/.523 and 250/260 @.050, or even a hydraulic roller
4.56 gear
sticky rubber

Don't know if that's enough to buy you a whole second, but it should put you in the neighborhood!

 

You really need to get a life. Fords are ok, just like GM's are ok, just like mopars are ok.

Being so narrow minded that you can't see past your self imposed blinders is just plain being stupid. You are missing on a lot of great things.

 

Patriot just released some small block (alum) head's that will look and perform. Rock soild the crank rod's and it will rev. It is a small journal crank right?