Ford tops had a fabric opening through 1936 then they went all steel in 1937. Why was this ?? I'm guessing it was either tooling... or maybe just tradition...going back to a horse drawn buggy with a canvas top ?? Anybody know ?
yep... i believe it was all about the press and die situation... i dont think anyone had full roofs on anything larger than a pickup cab till the late 30's
I don't know that the size of the stamp was the reason. They were stamping complete coupe tops and leaving the hole for the canvas, so the size maybe wasn't the reason. It certainly would have been cheaper to stamp the complete coupe top than have to fabricate the wood structure and the canvas insert. Don't know an answer for sure.
most the early tops were peices bolted together, 2 sides , the front and the back , not one stamp with a hole in it.
I always thought it was a weight issue, but when I think about it now I guess the canvas/wood/tar couldn't be much different in weight than the steel would have been.
First one piece tops , to my knowledge, were on the '35 Chev Master series cars. Until that time, there were no presses large enough to hold the dies to draw a top in one piece. Tops were made in four pieces and welded together. By the time I retired as a diemaker, we were stamping Cadillac hoods in one piece. Large piece of sheet metal. Bob
I've read that they couldn't do them that big. Also that doing the roofs on the Cords was so expensive it bankrupted Cord, & then Hupmobile & Graham when they tried making the same bodys.
When GM started the one piece roofs they made a big deal out of it, called them "turret tops". In addition, I think it was technology needed to create a deeply drawn part, not presses that large.
Never heard that about Cord, etc. Actually, it was poor management that caused all those makes to fail, be it for failing to read the market right, excess expenditures, you name it, any time a business fails, it is bad management. For example, Graham thought that customers would flock to the showrooms for a car that used the same body dies of the Cord, didn't happen, probably underpowered, cost too much, whatever, management's fault.
I dunno, But it sure looks like **** when guys fill them. An old hot rod with a Fabric Top has the best look
".....both Ford and General Motors continued using wooden body components until 1937, when Wills's patents on the all-steel body expired. The first all-steel bodies were introduced that year." More info here: http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2005/06/01/hmn_feature20.html CC
could also have been, and just having pondered it a lil while here, but perhaps to ease the wood installation process at the factory? lotta wood to brace em up and being able to do SOME of that work from the top might have lessened the time involved?
It was a tax break to ***ist the farbic industry. The all steel cars were destroying the fabric job market with the automobile displacing the horse and wagons that were mainly wood and cloth. There was a tax break if the car did not have a full steel roof.
Interesting..... You can sure see the line from the horse drawn buggy into the early automobiles. More so in the beginning, but still very apparent in the 30's cars. I'm sure alot of the labor force had beginnings with wagons and buggy's before the Tin Lizzie came along. So some of the materials used were what they knew. Did they use leather in the construction too ?
Deep-draw stampings weren't perfected yet. Partly due to the stamping methods and partly due to the qualities of the metal available at the time. They were getting the hang of floor stampings, but all around the industry there was a problem with stretch marks and tears in the metal, so panels that had to look cosmetically perfect couldn't have much shape built into them. The metal sheet that was needed for the job had to have no flaws in the grain, or it would tear or split. The metal stamping press had to pull, stretch, and bend the sheet in just the right way so it left no stretch marks, thin spots, or extra metal to leave the common waves and wrinkles you often see in old floor pans. We take it for granted today, but it was a real challenge for the engineers to get it all working together just right a long time ago when all those procedures were brand new ideas.
Good point...that escaped me. The quality of the steel. I've seen big improvements in steel in the last 25 years, so I can just imagine what they were dealing with.
Just the usual friendly "use the search function" reminder. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158992&highlight=turret
I would have to say it was the presses, more than the metal. If you have worked on gennie Henry steel - and lots of you have, wouldn't you agree that steel is more malleable than the current 'repro' tin? I have always been amazed at how workable the original sheet metal really is/was. I believe Mr. Ford always specified the alloy content of his metals for whatever shrewd reason(s) he had. I always thought it had a higher nickle or other metal content making it more durable. Take and old item - get it to bare metal and them wire wheel it, take a new item, do the same. You'll notice the old stuff gets a nice burnished hue to it, where the new stuff is lighter, brighter, definitely different. You can take an old headlight bar, get it cherry red and make a pretzel with it if you want to, just super workable. Another thought process with the tops to me, has always been that the manufacturers were trying to keep the bodies more similar to the old coaches/wagons that people were used to. People's mindsets were much different then - this is pre rocket ship days. Maybe trying to keep staid and conservative consumers of the day in their comfort zone, and making the cars similar to what they were used to. I believe that folks in those days were very unused to change for change sake, look at how the Airflows were seen in the Thirties - awesome and futuristic compared to other iron of the time frame by our standards, but probably ugly, gangly, awkward, maybe even frightening by theirs. Also remember in the late twenties and early 30's we weren't all that far removed from horse and buggy, and I think some were still using them. Look at an old horsedrawn coach, and an early sedan - LOTS of similarities! Even the names are carryovers from horse and buggy days. Coupe, Coach, Cabriolet, Landau etc. Maybe I am all washed up, but it's certainly something to go hmmm... over.
The Jalopy Journal
