I work with a fellow who came across an old race car. All original and nearly perfectly intact. No pictures yet and I havent seen it. But I was trying to get some information on this car. The car is built similar to the race cars of the day but has fenders and a 4 cylinder engine. The rear portion of the car is shaped more like a 32 ford instead of the pointy rearend as we envision. I searched for a while and can't really come up with anything on this car. It also was built by Opel as I understand but has the Mulford name plate on the grille shell. This car has the wood spoked wheels and it was said that it was raced in Indy. I found info on Google regarding Ralph Mulford who was a race car designer and racer during that time period but no info on this specific car. I did come across a car call the "the Mulford Special". But no pictures and this car was dated an earlier time. The ***le says 1917 Mulford. Question?? Any of you old race car junkies have any leads or ideas on how to find a history on the car with pics?
Petejoe, I wanna see some pictures so post them as son as you can. And by the way, that bear is funny and creepy at the same time. Be Careful, indeed.
He told me he was trying to buy this car for 20 years and finally was able to get it. For 8500 ..Unbelievable. I too am waiting patiently for pics. Nothing worse than a cuddly preverse teddy bear.
Ralph Mulford ran a Mulford ch***is with Duesenberg power in the 1920 Indy 500. He did not qualify but started 23rd and finished 9th. He ran a few 500's after that but with Frontenac/Frontenac cars. Info is from my Indianapolis 500 Chronicle by Rick Popely with L. Spencer Riggs.
Ralph Mulford was one of the people who MAY have actually won the first Indy 500 in 1911 but the scoring system had issues. Regardless, he finished the race without a relief driver...the only driver to do so. He drove a Lozier. He won the Vanderbilt cup. 1st AAA Points 1911 10th AAA points 1916 1st AAA points in 1918 He drove all kinds of cars...Mulford, though relatively unspoken of today, was big time...this could be a very important car...or, given that the AAA canceled the season in 1917...it may not be important at all.
Post some pics, would love to see it. Many of the original indy races (Pre1930) we just street cars with their fenders stripped off. So one having its fenders on would be that big a deal. In some cases they would drive to the track, take the fenders off, race, then put the fenders back on for the trip home. Finding an old race car is RARE!!!! I tried to find out what happened to my friend's (Jim Dunham / Kelly Pettillo) 1935 indy car. Unsually after a couple of seasons they were sold for parts, so the guy could buy new equipment. Also there were lots of other races besides Indy. If its a single seater then its probably one of the "other" races. Indy had two seats up to the late 1930's for the riding mechanic. If you continue to have trouble IDing it you might try the Indy Historian: Full Name: Donald Davidson Company: Indy Histrorian Business: 317-492-6716 E-mail: ddavidson@brickyard.com He's not an email kind of guy, he doesn't like the new computer stuff. Maybe that's why he's a historian
First of all, 99%+ of all racecars don't have ***les. If the car was an Indy 500 racer, the Indy 500 Museum should have all the information available on it and I'm sure would be interested in acquiring the car as well. Lots of "IF"s here but it sounds like a really neat piece anyhow!
The owner indicated the ***le given him said 1917 Mulford. I have just learned of this car this morning... My post was just to find out more info on this interesting car. Now that it is not listed as driven during any races makes it more interesting, it may had the Mulford nameplate put on years ago for some lost reason. He indicated this car does have fenders and has a racing history. I need to see more info too. I am just trying to verify facts. If it was a street car being raced, it could have a ***le. I bet most of the street cars back then didnt even have ***les. The ***le could have been created many years later.... I cant wait to get some pictures from this guy.
By the way Opel is a German affiliate of General Motors today (the latest offering from Saturn is an Opel in Saturn's clothing) but that was before GMs formation and well before their overseas endeavors.
More info.... the car was bought by a tire company, BF Goodrich, to test race tires. It reportedly had large solid disc wheels on it at that time. It was sold to one owner who had it until 1980 when he p***ed. The next owner had it for twenty years and sold it to this fellow. He explains it to not "look like the typical race cars back then. more rounded. I am pushing for pictures!
I left word again with the owner who in fact is interested in selling or at least thats what I'm told. I explained to him that I may be able to get the word out to the correct people who would be intersted in it. He still hasnt sent me any pictures. I really don't believe he knows what type of connections are available through this site. I can get his contact number if you are really intersted in it. Hell, I'd just be happy to see pictures of this thing. I spent quite a few hours researching on line and didnt come up with anything specific about the car. It has me intrigued after finding out the name of this car is the same as the popular driver and engineer of the early days.
Pictures would help, Mulford ran a record car at Sheepshead Bay around that time although the rear did not resemble a Ford in my opinion. The problem with Opel is that the war was ongoing at that time and no cars were being built overseas that I know of-in fact they were sending cars here. Would like to see photos. If it ran in the teens I may have some other photos-Jim
I was hoping that this thread would sustain life as Mulford is a worthy topic for discussion. It is true that some believe he won the first Indy and with the poor timing system he may have been robbed of immortality. He was a hard driving racer but due to his religious beliefs he would not race on Sunday which put a crimp in his racing schedule at times. His nickname was smiling Ralph, apparently well earned and I have never read a harsh word about him. In !917 he drove a Hudson Super Six mainly the only real "stock" type car on the major AAA circuit but these cars were far from stock. I believe there are more around today than were ever built-imagine that. After the Americans were beaten at Indy by the 1913 Delage and 1914 Peugeot, the days of stock cars were pretty much done at Indy. It is true that some cars may have been driven to the track and had the fenders removed (or it can be argued as such over a beer or two, ala Mercer and Stutz) up to 1914 but after that all of the cars that I am aware of were purposefully built racecars. Even the T-head Mercers were outdated and Erik Delling (who succeeded Finley R Porter) designed a set of three OHC Mercers for 1915 and a completely different second set of OHC cars for 1916. The Stutz cars were also pretty sophisticated OHC cars. None of these Mercers or Stutz cars were stock or street cars but very fine purposefully built racecars. From 1915 up to the Junk formula of the depression pretty much every car was a well designed racecar and almost all were OHC cars. Most of the cars did not lend themselves to fenders very well but many of the drivers wanted their own Specials and so I would not be surprised if Mulford designed and built a car. Seeing photos of any of these "specials" would be great Mulford in 1916 had a Mulford Special that he was trying to ready for compe***ion but he could not work out the bugs apparently. I would really be curious to find out the real story on that car as I believe it to have quite an odd engine. His main mount for the Speedways in 1916 was Luther Brown's Peugeot until Depalma bought it. Mulford then went on to race the Hudson Super Six and he was mildly successful with the car winning the July 4th 1917, 150 miler at Omaha Speedway. I include a couple of photos of the 1916 Hudson Super Six he ran at Ormond Beach (with the elongated nose) and Sheepshead Bay (the night photo). This is a different car than the mount he ran in 1917. Hope that photos are forthcoming-Jim
hell, just to throw a wrench in this... 1916: Mulford was racing a 4.5 litre DOHC Peugot (owned by a E.J. Schroeder) in June of '16 at Sheepshead bay lapping at 104.34 winning the 50 miler and second in the main event. July 4th of '17 driving a Hudson he wins a race at the Omaha Boardtrack. He also drove one of the Frontenac's from atleast September 22nd of the '17 season as he races at Sheepshead bay in one and then is still racing the same car until Indy of '18 (out with a broken driveshaft) as a not about the rear end looking like a '32 ford, the Stutz's of that period have a gas tank that resembles the posterior of a "duece". ('15/'16)
Photos Please! Both sides of the car & engine. Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942 states Mulford was involved building a few prototype cars but the deals were underfunded and never finished. I've got a lot of paperwork on the Ira Vail 1919 Hudson, that was a special factory built racer, now locked up in a West Coast collection.
i wish i could find something on one of these Mulford specials. But the best i have is Bob Burman's "Burman" with it's special Wisconsin motor...
Hey Doug in 1914 Mulford ran Schroeder's Mercedes with a Peugeot (448ci) engine at Indy. This was the ex-DePalma car. DePalma had moved onto Patterson as his patron. Where did you come across that Schroeder had one of the 4.5 Peugeots? Interesting. Mulford was running around in Brown's Peugeot but his ride was not all that solid that year. He did have a pretty decent Frontenac mount in 1918 that he continued to run into 1919 including Indy. It is sad that nothing from these great Frontenacs survived. If I hit the lottery I would start building one tomorrow. There are a couple of Chevrolet's second set of racing engines around although no one had put one in racing form. Also Burman had a couple of Wisconsin engines but I never ran across if he had one of the OHC Wisconsins (like in the Newman Stutz). What are you coming up with on the specs of Burman Wisconsins. He was the guiding force behind the Sub in my opinion and had two Peugeots and some Wisconsin stuff but I had found his Wisconsin stuff to be quite tame. I have a picture of the Mulford Special engine of 1916 but it is a zerox copy out of Motor Age and really poor quality. I have some of the specs but it sounded pretty tame to me as well so I have never attempted to track down what it is. Lets hope that good stuff has been resurrected-Jim
Bob, I got a brain teaser for you. There was a Mulford Special in 1916 with a 299c.i. owned by Ira M.G. Vail. What the heck is that all about?-Jim
The "beginnings" of the Sub is cool, "rumor" has it that after Burman dies, Miller had the beginnings of the Sub in his shop. Oldfield, being the perennial showman, gets wind of/ or sees this thing takes up the note and has it finished (or built depending on how you see it). Then the story comes out that Oldfield has the sub built for safety concerns after his pal Burman dies in his Peugot. (the two main safety features of the sub being the body and the dual pitman arm/ drag link steering) of course the sub almost kills Oldfield when he flips into an infield lake at a race course and almost drowns. Subsequently has the body cut off. There is a picture of the Burman Wisconsin engined car in Doyles: "Ralph DePalma: Gentleman Champion" Also I may have mispoke on the reference to the engine displacement on Mulfords Peugot, I will go back and check it.
The ***le says: 1917 Mulford? There doesn't seem to be a car company of that name? Would race cars of that era even have a ***le as we know of? Post pics. I know a collecter in Houston who would know.
FB you are correct on the displacement 4.5 litres or 274 c.i.. The thing that threw me a curve is that both Schroeder and Patterson were Mercedes nuts and both acted as patrons for DePalma. When the war struck there was a measure of anti-German fever and they both got out of racing. DePalma bought the 1915 Indy winning Grand Prix Mercedes and it then became a part of the DePalma Manufacturing Co. racing stable of cars co-owned by him and Frank and Herbert Book. Neither Patterson nor Schroeder sponsored any cars that I know of in 1916. There were four 274 Peugeots in 1916, one owned by Kaufman the New York importer for Peugeot (Resta) , Lucher Brown (Mulford), and the two Speedway cars driven by the likes of Johnny Aitken and Howdy Wilcox. It was these two Speedway cars that acted as copies for the Peugeot "copies" the Premiers. Harry Harkness had an engine I believe but it is the first I have heard with Schroeder being ***ociated in 1916. The 37 Kid is an Ira Vail guru and may be holding out on us on Vails ***ociation with the Mulford Special, we may have to keep up the pressure on him. You and I are in agreement on the Sub. Oldfield was in the right place at the right time on that one in my opinion. Gary Doyles book on DePalma is a real good book. A lot of stuff on DePalma was clarified in that book. It is good reading in my opinion as well. I have several photos of the Burman Special shown in his book. That was one of the old modified stock engines. He was playing with some stuff on that car and then the new and smaller cubic inch limitation came along as well as a couple of Peugeots. The Peugeots were a bit large in cubic inch so he had Miller come up with interchangeable liners. Pretty neat stuff. Good guy that died before he could be a part of tweaking the OHC cars. As to ***les, Michigan for instance did not have ***les as we know them today until the early twenties so anyone could have ***led a racecar with fenders and who would question. Others states would vary but probably not too much. As a general rule though racecars then and now do not have ***les per se. The rules of the AAA sanctioning body required cars such as this to be referred to as specials so that is quite normal.-Jim
Jim, One of the Ira Vail related items I have is the Pennsylvalia ***LE for his 1919 INDY 500 Hudson when is was a street driven sporting vehicle. The car exists in a collection out West, I wonder if I found a good lawyer...................
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