I cant find any numbers on the frame.... Somebody told me that there was no frame number on the model A the only number was on the engine? And it was first in 1932 they begun to stamp numbers in the frame.
yeah, the model A numbers were on the driver side under the cowl. Mine are there but they are just about weathered off, and I don't have a lot of rust on my frame, so it's easy to loose them.
The numbers on the block were stamped at the time of assembly and were to match the frame numbers. The frame numbers are under the cowl and on the driver's side. (note, under cowl means that the body has to be removed to find the numbers) The numbers are on the top side, should be able to find them with some sanding. Neal
Just as Model T Fords, the Model A engines were numbered at the engine assembly plant in numerical sequence for distribution to the assembly plants throughout the system. Any frame numbering was done at the vehicle assembly plant to match the engine number of the engine installed. This is why, due to shipping times and inventory pulling errors, any given car may have a serial number weeks or several months from the date of engine numbering indicated on the build charts.
Actually, engine was stamped with sequential number after building and inspection at the Rouge plant. Then it was sent off to one of the 30 or so assembly plants and when it met up with a frame the frame was numbered to the engine. Finding a matching numbers car after 79 years would be unusual...you will find some A's with original documentation matching frame number, others that have gotten new titles along the way based on an engine originally in another car.
Minor hijack: after reading the horror stories from people in California and other states concerning registration, I'm guessing the best way to go with a paperless car would be to find a block and frame that match. Hijack over, and thanks for the replies...
The trick is to rivet a small plate to the frame just ahead of the firewall and stamp the numbers on it.
But some states apparently have books listing serial number styles and locations back to the dawn of time...adding a plate to a car that never had one would be pretty clear cut fraud if examined by anyone with a reference. Confiscate, crush, arrest?
Does anybody ever really fool the DMV inspectors with stuff like this? Why in the world would they think that nice shiney new plate placed exactly where they can see it is the original number?
I think it is time to be very careful...if you are going to fake it, fake it right, not with a plate...drivers license standards have been DRASTICALLY tightened recently with LOTS of proof of identity now requires unde heavy federal pressure...how long before car ID gets checked , with no new registers till a cop actually sets eyes on a number in the metal and compares it with the reference book? Paranoia is the safest policy when in contact with the government, I think...fake it RIGHT, and get a good title quick.
Totally anecdotal, but I've read that they have gone so far as to impound the car in question and acid strip the frame looking for numbers. Go figure.
Don't forget that Model A's have been titled by engine number, they have been titled by frame number, and they have been titled fro olde titles having nothing to do with the actual car. A number you actually possess in original metal may already be in use on another car. Streetrodders routinely buy Ford with titles--then sell all the parts of the car actually carrying a number. Think of the neat problems THAT is gonna cause!
That's something else that I've thought about. The question is who would it cause problems for? Let's say I go and buy a frame and matching block, and bolt my body onto it for the sake of registration. If they find that my numbers are legitimately on my car, and they find that a street rodder has used them for the purpose of registering a car that has a new frame, engine, 'glass body, etc., then sold off the parts (my hypothetical frame and block) who's going to get nailed? Especially if they call said street rodder and ask him to bring his car down for inspection? I realize that in this hypothetical situation, my hypothetical frame, block, and body, would all be impounded pending further investigation. But it seems that because the street rodder actually IS in violation, he would have a lot more to answer to than I would... Comments?
Just get a rebuilt title, and get a NEW VIN number. Or get an old registration and stamp your numbers in the frame with 1/8 inch stamps.Take a pencil etching of the number off the rail. Take your stuff to the DMV and get a title. It's not rocket science. Say you bought your car from some joker at a swap meet, easy as 3.14, I've done it.
We (in the UK) have always thought you guys had it easy over there, and not just in having '32 Fords round every corner, but sounds like things are tightening up for you as well. The only reason any of the powers-that-be really care is if they are missing out on some income: we don't pay road tax ($330/year) on cars registered before 1973, but it appears that there has been a big rise in the number of pre-'73 cars being "restored" and registered for the road!
Rem, that's just it. It's about MONEY. Not safety, not smog, not theft (well, maybe a little about theft), but money. They're missing out on "millions" every year in smog test revenues and such. Aww. Poor politicians. Eat me.
i can tell you that that trick will not gaurantee that number will come up......i had a couple county detective friends try the "acid" deal on one of my model a frames.....it involved some clay ...some acid and some copper or brass and a battery .....controlled elctrollisis (sp) ...barely even scratched the surface and as they left ...one told me that those numbers will probably show up better when they came back..... with a laugh it was kinda cool to watch the whole process...... brandon
OK, but just the (implied) fact that they'd go so far as to impound your car to look for numbers is just amazing to me. For a state agent (!) to look at you straight faced and tell you that your car doesn't exist because it's missing numbers (eaten away by rust after 70 some-odd years) is equally impressive.
If you talk to five different workers you may get five different answerer's. Come back the next day and half of them will have changed their position. I realize that would be two and a half people.
The 30 roadster I just bought has a 60 hp. It was out of state car, so had to have a VIN check. Call our local police and one came out, I explain that As had #s on the engine and under the cowl, engine has been changed as most have. Someone had put an alumimun tag on the firewall to match the title. He filled out the paper work, no problem. I know him, but not that well and he can be tough.
I took the body off my 31 and took a picture and took it with me to get the title changed and they never even asked to see it. My title # was the frame #, the motor was a 30
Instead of dealing with DMV directly, try one of the registration services. Some of these services are run by former DMV employees, and now when they're on the opposite side of the counter, their perspective changes, and now they're working for you. One I know of, can walk into DMV like they own the place, and process your paperwork faster than you ever thought possible. I used a service for car I bought at auction that had no current title, and a lein on it, and it was a piece of cake. Worth the money too.
When I got my Model A registered - it had no VIN. Went to the local registration office. When I was asked for a VIN number, I responded that there wasnt one for Model A's ( as I thought at the time). The guy behind the counter produced a MASSIVE old book that was titled something like ALMANAC OF VEHICLE INDENDTIFICATION NUMBERS 1910 -1958. He looked it up - it said that number was on transmission mount or something... I was then issued a new number. We went outside and dad and I stamped the new number on. We accidently missed a letter, then squeezed it in where it was supposed to go! It wasnt particularly straight job either. When the guy came back to check it, he just looked at it then asked: "Where'd you get the drunk monkey to do that?" Anyway that VIN book does exist! Adam F
See if there are other ways to verify the numbers. In Fl. you can have someone at a car dealer do it with a form you get from DMV. Show them a number anywhere and get signed off.
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