The 10% ethanol added gas in western US fuels is way different than E85. it is used to "allegedly" low our emissions. E85 is great if you are running a high compression motor and don't care about your fuel costs, proper fuel delivery system costs and availablity. Makes a good race gas.
Look at theis website for station locations. http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infrastructure/e85_stations.cgi Public stations in the west. California........1 Washington.....2 Oregon...........4 Nevada...........4 Idaho..............2 Utah...............4 Arizona...........7 Montana.........1 Wyoming........4 Better have a BIG gas tank!
Way different, oh yeah that's right the ratio is different.. other than that not.... Go back to listening to Gary Wright... That shit is way out of date. I can look at the North Carolina stations and see about 5 I know of missing, 2 local ones I know have been there for 5 months.
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned propane as an option. Some of the 4x4 guys have been using it for a while now. Here is a link to a web site that has some info on it for anybody who might be interested. http://www.gotpropane.com/p3.html disclaimer: I have no connection whatsoever with the company whose web page I am linking. I don't know if they are a good company to deal with. I'm linking one of their web pages because it happens to have some good info on using propane as an alternative motor fuel, and for no other reason. The main reason I mention propane is because propane's octane rating runs between 100 and 110. Yeah, a propane set up won't look traditional, but it will certainly start conversations (as well as your car), and will likely gather a crowd whenever you pop your hood around a bunch of motorheads. Unlike E85 you can get it all over the world, too. It's the same stuff people use in their backyard grills.
Americans spend the smallest percentage of their income on food than anyone in the world. Our farmers have consistantly produced a corn surplus and there is no threat of "food vs fuel". Food processors are using ethanol as an excuse to raise their prices and give "investigative reporters" on local shock-news programs stories. Obviously we cannot grow enough corn to supply all of our fuel needs. But ethanol is a great fuel additve and octane booster in gasoline. It is probably safe to assume that some percentage of ethanol will be in all fuels in the near future to replace MTBE. Ethanol doesn't not require more energy to make than it creates. And the corn grown to produce it takes in more CO2 than ethanol burning creates. And it's renewable, and supports locally owned ethanol plants and farmers. E85 has gas in it to A) keep it from being 200 proof hooch, and B) help in cold starting situations. E85 isn't available everywhere, but there are more and more stations carrying it all the time. The midwest has the most because we grow the corn and have made ethanol a priority. Yes, an E85 system in your car is more expensive than a plain gas one, that's a given. If E85 were, better in every aspect, everyone would be falling over themselves trying to get it. If you want to put down running ethanol, which is a very simple conversion when compared to other "energy alternatives", just start looking into how much it'll cost to convert your rod to a hyrogen fuel cell system.
Would you rather help a American farmer scrape together a little better living, or an arab build a little bigger palace in the desert? It's true I live on a farm, and we grow corn, but even if I didn't I'd still support ethanol. Every dollar you spend to support business in the United States, helps support other businesses in the United States. If you favor hotrod parts "made in the USA", why not support fuel "grown in the USA"?
In addition to the fact that E85 dosn't really work, alki cost a lot to transport, and there are gasoline refineries in Nor and SoCal. In Cali we eat our locally grown corn while we soak in our hot tubs.
because ethanol is nothing more than a program to take money out of my pocket and put in a farmers pocket..i think that is called socialism i believe in letting the market decide what they want to buy and how much to pay for it....and not to give government subsidies to corn and ethanol producers
Maybe instead of bragging about North Carolinas 15 stations, you could find a more up to date source of available stations so we all could make a more informed decision. And yes I was 'dreamin" before you were born.
And we're getting two distillery/refineries as for a more up to date list, haven't found one though I do get notified on an email list when pumps are added in NC. I would think there are lists like these for each state. All the lists I found online are a bit behind. Gary Wright = Dreamweaver 1975... I've just closed my eyes again Climbed aboard the dream weaver train Driver take away my worries of today And leave tomorrow behind Ooh, dream weaver I believe you can get me through the night Ooh, dream weaver I believe we can reach the morning light Fly me high through the starry skies Maybe to an astral plane Cross the highways of fantasy Help me to forget today's pain Though the dawn may be coming soon There still may be some time Fly me away to the bright side of the moon And meet me on the other side</pre> I was alive and kicking and dreaming, if you are older than me, well yay for you....
I'm with you Matt. This is a complicated political issue. How about the argument of getting ethanol from South America where they can make it from sugarcane which is a way better source than corn as they can render more of the plant (even though this isn't helping the American farmer - unless it would make ethanol more available/popular). They would sell to the US now but we levy high taxes on the import. Lets help those poor allied countries instead of making middle easterners rich who want to kill us infidels. Also, it is possible to make your own ethanol at home - there is much info on this on the internet. You can make your own still or buy one online - even ebay. One does have to get a permit though as it is drinkable - as in moonshine. Is anyone reading this making their own brew?
It's not socialism. Yes there are subsidies for ethanol, but there are subsidies for corn already as well. Subsidies are not socialism, their main objective is to keep food prices low in this country, and by reading this thread you can see how good we have it when people complain about a little increase in food costs. Ethanol subsidies are in effect right now to get the industry established because there are so many uninformed people that automatically seem to be against ethanol. Personally, I don't care if you want to use E85 or not, it's a specialty fuel and not perfect for all aplications. But the fact of the matter is that ethanol will used as an additive in gasoline in the near future, because it's better for the environment, lowers demand for forgien oil, and is renewable. If you want to try to argue about that, go ahead.
Look at it this way: if it takes a gallon of ethanol to make a gallon of ethanol, where does that leave us? And the first gallon is paid for by the taxpayers through subsidies.
i'm not going to argue with you...your mind is already made up. you are a good salesman for Al-Corn.you are a farmer and are on the good end of the stick but , how would you feel if the government forced you to to buy MY product..if you wanted it or not..and this product performed worst than you were already using , caused problems with your equipment , has poorer fuel mileage and had no cost savings? .when should i bring them over? you are aware that we are using ethanol NOW in minnesota? i'm on the shit end of the stick enough said,no more responses
I'm buying the same gas you are. And I don't own shares in Al-corn, or any other ethanol plant. I'm a 20 year old college student from a farm who would like to someday farm after school. I believe ethanol is a realistic renewable alternative fuel. It requires a much less drastic change in the fuel system we have now when compared to hydrogen. And for the last time, it doesn't take more fuel, to make ethanol then it creates. Do you think we'd be cranking out as much ethanol as we do if it made zero net gain? Of course I know that there is ethanol in all fuel sold in Minnesota, we have been very proactive in trying to increase renewable fuel use. I was refering to gasoline blended and sold in other states. Ethanol is used as a octane booster in fuel, to replace MTBE, which is bad for the environment and for people. So, that would be one benefit right there. I'm sorry you feel shorted by the ethanol industry, I realize that it is not a perfect product and that problems do occur whenever there is a change in a established system. However, that shouldn't keep us from trying to improve for the greater and future good, just because it is hard, or inconvenient right now. 36-3Window, I understand we have different opinions on this, and that's fine with me. I don't hold any harsh feelings about people who don't like ethanol. I hope I see you around Southern MN sometime, I'll be in a green and white '55 chevy.
Ethanol is a great thing for the future of hot rods. Because more ethanol is required than gasoline to get equal btu,s, how about a smaller displacement engine with high compression to get equal performance of larger displacement. There is a young guy featured in the last 'Drive' magazine running a Hyundai Tibiron at 10sec 1/4 mile times, pushing 650 hp out of a 4 cyl (w/turbo and NOx). One day maybe a decent small displacement engine will be available to take the high compression that can be run with ethanol - smaller displacement, high compression, high hp, burning less moonshine. Why would this ever be encouraged when you can make your own brew - where will the tax dollars come from? Gasoline in Calif is highest in the nation because of taxes. Ethanol is a potential $ loser for the govt. and oil companys. For our hobby, with few miles driven and tinkeritus, ethanol seems like a great potential.
mmmkay....a smaller engine with more compression doesn't displace more air and fuel. a 7.5 to 1 283 chevy displaces what a 13.5 to 1 283 junior stock engine does, given the same bore and stroke. supercharging has a net effect of increasing displacement by more densley packing the air and fuel charge of the intake stroke. for a given amount of hp produced, alcohol engines will require roughly double the fuel compared to gasoline to produce it. that's the bottom line.
We have to think out of the box. The laws need to be up dated to allow any one to produce alcohol, if metal is used in the distillation it is poison to drink, anyway. We must get away from big oil producing our ethanlo.Big oil has its own need for greed, the price will drop when local towns and private citizens make alcohol in the back yard. That will stop all the need for transportation. Farmers are still today being paid not to grow food.. Open the floods gates and farmers can produce what ever the demand. They can restart sugar beets, wheat land is still substidized,. And there is always an animal feed by product.We must find alternatives, naysayers, will all be walking when China and Russia takes over the oil fields of the Mid East.
Politics aside, I'm planning on using those old TRW's I've got hanging in the shop to build me another 12:1 solid lifter 301 inch Chevy motor with camel hump heads and a 4speed! Nothing could be sweeter!!!!!!!!!
The latest Car Craft mag had an article on a E85 motor - very pro E85. You guys in the rainy states with lots of green waste should be able to brew your own easier than the winter only rain states. In Mich there is so much wood from cuttings etc (wood fired still) that it would seem like you could make the ethanol cheaply. Does switch grass grow in states that get snow?
You get nuffing for nuffing! Corn fuel is a bit cheaper . BUT ,you will use more of it .Keep adding alcohol and it will get worse exponentially .Till you get to the track scenario when its up to 5 x to get things movin ! Also ,more upper cylinder wear ,water attracting and associated corrosive properties . YOU CAN KEEP YOUR STINKIN HIPPIE FUELS !
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