OK I know not many of you folks street rod your projects... blasphem in the eyes of most... but maybe you can help a guy with a dream out. Rather that take a lot of space to explain it all here. I made a separate web page that explains it all... NOW pleased don't skip over this just because I didn't ask here... I need some help and I also needs some pics for explaination,.. just figured it was better to use my own space for all that. Basically for some reasone wheels don't center in fenders... but you need to read the whole story here http://www.peachstspeedway.com/pickupguy5.htm Thanks for anyone that can help Chris
Well, you did at least 2 things wrong. One: You didn't do a mock up before you welded out the front suspension. Two: You referenced the axle centerline from the front of the frame, but make no mention of the centerline to firewall measurement. I suspect that your front sheet metal referenced off the front end differently than you have it now. I can't tell how far you are into the ch***is construction, but I would think you might be able to move the body forward on the ch***is a bit. In frame construction, the stubs forward of the front axle are rarely important in the ch***is layout. The big ones are axle centerlines, firewall placement, engine alignment to front/rear, side/side and ground, and then ride height. Did you record any of these?
yeah.. I can kinda see the point of the mock up (now)... just didn't seem to make any sense at the time. I should have mentioned this is a Studebaker, and all the parts are the same on a one ton, and a 1/2 ton. Same hood, cab. grille, fenders, etc. Can mounts back in the exact same place on both ch***is (there is a 'ear' that sticks out of the ch***is that is 47 1/2" back on both ch***is) The cab mounts in the exact place on the ton frame as it does the 1/2 ton. SO with that being the case, I figured when the cab mounted back in the same place,.. then the radiator mounted back in the same place, naturallt the fenders and hood would be in exactly the same places. Made common sense. SO to anser your question... Axle centerline is exactly as it was... Firewall is exactly as it was... and the front mount for the whole deal that lines it all up is the radiator, and it is exactly in the same place. I guess thats why I'm so confused. It's all back where it was, but now somethings wrong. As far as engine alingment... I took out an inline 6 and puttin in a 350. But it's still 'centered' like the old one was. Ride height is gonna be different because this front end has 2" dropped spindles. Thanks for the reply... hope you and some others can help
I think the 1 ton sheetmetal is what gimped you up... they are usually longer than 1/2 ton sheetmetal. It would probably line up with the 1 ton fenders on it now. Don't worry so much, just cut it and fix it and it'll be done! just splice the frame and move the frontend back to the correct measurement for the fenders. ALWAYS DO A MOCK UP BEFORE YOU DO FINISH WELDING!!
Studebaker? Did this have a solid axle or indepenent front? On Stude cars, the control arms swept back several inches. The center of the control arm hinge and cross-member were NOT at the axle centerline. Just a thought. I don't have any experience with the trucks.
looks to me like the wheels sit further forward on the big truck, although it's not easy to see from this angle (and I only looked for pics for a few minutes on google)
Did you measure to the middle of the axle or the midle of the spindles? There might be a difference. Also were the wheels centered originally alot of old trucks had the wheel off center in the wheel openings right from the factory. A little bit here a little bit there it can add up really quick and make things bad in a hurry.
to scott... I'm not well versed in the cars... on the M5 truck I got the axle is a solid axle, and comes straight up with no sweep back. to squirrel... the fenders opening on the M5 were smaller than the opening on the one tons, so it gave then that 'look'.. but when you get to measuring, I believe they sat in the same place..?? My one ton didn't come with a front axle. (or rear) In any event, when I put my truck together it was ***embled as a 1/2 ton with 1/2 ton sheet metal (which is the same on 'both' trucks) so common sense would tell me when I put my axle where the 1/2 ton axle should be... then put 1/2 ton sheet metal on it,.. it should all match up?? SHould look like the truck and fenders on the right to K13... the axle and center of the wheels were the same. but thansk for the thought
this has been a ongoing topic lately.the deal is when a car/truck gets lowered the wheel/fender relationship some time changes. while its important to keep the ch***is square so the vehicle goes down the road straight. you concentrated on the tape measure instead of mocking up the wheel in the fender.most of the cars/trucks i do end up longer than they started.
when I look at pics of M5 studes on google, I see fenders that don't look like yours. what's up? what year is your sheetmetal? maybe I don't know enough about the old trucks to be much help...
I agree with Shaddilac, I would cut the frame. Take a section out the move the front suspension back as far as it needs to be. When you take the section out put gussets inside and outside the frame. I would also plug weld by drilling holes in the frame so you can weld to the inside gussets. Then when you put on the outside have holes drilled in those as well so you can plug weld and around the oytside of the gusset. This should be plenty strong. Wouldn't take more than a few hours. Good luck with what ever you decide.
I would think moving the wheel opening forward might be easier, at this point, than either sectioning the frame or cutting the crossmember out and rewelding it farther back. The radius of the wheel well opening doesn't match the radius of the tire all that well, as it is, and it appears some metalwork is going to be needed at the back of the opening to repair rust damage. You could either reuse the original wheel opening or subs***ute one from another vehicle. With competent sheet metal work, I doubt anyone will notice. JM$0.02USW Cheers -- Gary
I helped do a MII conversion on an early Mustang. One thing we found out is that the crossmember centerline is not the same as the spindle centerline. Our crossmember was actually back about an inch from the spindle centerline. If that was the case with yours, and you measured from the crossmember, you would end up with wheels too far forward. To get it right you could cut the stuff loose, but it looks like the easiest route would be to take a section out of the ch***is. It looks like straight box rails that runs parallel to each other so a straight cut, a small section, and some fishplates should be pretty easy to do and a lot less work than redoing the whole suspension. And remember, measure twice, cut once, and tack and mockup before finish welding.
If you are careful and accurate you can weld the piece you cut out from behind the MII cross member back in front of the MII cross member to keep the front cross member where it needs to be for the core support etc. using all the frame splicing techniques described above. Ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.
wow where do I start... I guess a BIG thanks are in order for so many replies while I slept... Let me start where I left off from last night... Maybe this will get better as we go along, I appreciate all the help. NOW,.. I'm not trying to be negative, and shoot down all the suggestions... I guess I'm just adding more info maybe I didn't think of at the start. OK here we go Squirrel... as far as my fenders looking the same... mine used to looks like the pics you provided, but this truck came from up north and the bottom was all rusted out,.. Z48LT1... I got plans to just go away with all the fenders and replace them with fibergl*** ones. For you other two folks... cutting the front frame sounds easy enough... however I'd have to cut out 2". Thats no big deal I'm a competent enough welder. However if I shorten the frame that leaves all the sheet metal in front of the cab 2" too long. so then there's another (possbly bigger) problem
Tommy... you posted just as I was about to post the above... Your suggestion might fix my sheet metal length problem..?? Have to mull that over
Even if the piece you cut out isn't reusable, it would be no worse than fabricating a new front sheet metal support once the wheels are where they need to be. Just as if you used a Camaro clip. It's done all the time. 3 pieces of box tubing would fix it right up if necessary. I'd mock up the front sheet metal to position the front cross member to ensure proper location before welding. The fill piece might work but don't bank on everything lining up without checking proper alignment first. Get the wheels located in the wheel well first and then do what ever is necessary to hold the sheet metal in place.
i know you are giving me grief... lol... gotta have a sense of humor when trying to solve a mess like this. Just to be clear,.. I got the driver side fender and it's in good shape...I have marked where the center of the opening is... The wheel is 2" off center
Yeah, it does look off center a bit, but the pictures you have don't really let us see the whole truck, so it's not so easy to help you figure it out from this end. It just looked to me like the wheel opening on the p*** side fender is not shaped like the ones on the trucks I can find side view pictures of.
yeah... my bad... I guess i was just trying to zoom in and show the 'centering' of the wheel vs the fender opening... I can take a pic and add it to the web site link.
I may be mistaken, but it appears to me that the larger trucks had a longer hood and fenders. If you used the stock location large truck cab mounting points, this may account for the 2" setback that you are seeing. Just a thought...
well... it kinda just appears that way in the pictures. If you look at the site I refferenced... there three part of the sheet metal on the front end. The "fender" itself come off of a 1/2 ton pickup. The horizontal sheetmetal (that the headlight mounts on) come off of a one ton pickup, and the verticle sheetmetal that the hood closed down against come off of the 1/2 ton pickup. It all matches up perfectly. All the pickups; ton and 1/2 ton trucks from 41-48 were made the same with interchangeable parts. Cabs the same, fenders the same, hoods the same, doors the same... even fenders fit on either side, front or back. Even the bed of the truck was made the same on both side. Wasn't a particular 'side' to it. Both sides were identical. Just put the two sides together and welded them up the middle. I was amazed Studebaker was so far ahead of their time. Thansk to everyone so far for their replies.. Still have no clue how this happened??
Here is a suggestion. Build yourself a set of 2" zoomie headers that fill the gap to the fenders. It will look like you meant for it to be that way for clearences and turning radius. Just a thought.
I think before you do anything else you need to find one perfect front fender and bolt it up. Something tells me the fender in the picture has had a lot of material removed from the center of the wheel back. chuck
well... thats whats funny. The fender for the drivers side is in pretty good shape. I suppose I need to go ahead and put that side on. Whats ironic, is I never even suspected I run into the problem. The whole reason for even putting these parts on the front end was to get some measurements, that way I could ORDER some 'perfect' front fenders made from fibergl***. I need to decide if they need to be made the original width or two inches wider.... thats when I discovered this problem The other fender I have has the sheetmetal still intact,.. but the problem with it is that place it attaches the the fender on is mostly rusted out (sheetmetal is ok on outside, but turned down part where it bolts up is rusted out), and very few places to mount it on very solid. That was why we chose to mount on this rusted out fender... we were just looking for overall fender width, and front wheel clearance
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