Tradition vs "Tradition"!

I've been a hot rodder for over 50 years, worked in the Hot Rod "bidness" for 40 years and had 13 cars featured in national magazines.

That said, is it "traditional" to take a brand new '08 off the showroom floor and customize it ala Barris, Starbird, Jefferies, etc.? It was a tradition in the mid to late fifties to do exactly that and the finished product generally appeared on the covers the "little" books in April or May. I've done it twice with an '02 PT and an '03 Navigator. Both of these cars were magazine quality when they were done. BTW, I still use the Lincoln to tow the Zipper with a tow bar just like they did 50 years ago going over the Grapevine.

I suspect that many who were not even born when I was drag racing at Paradise Mesa will jump all over this thread with some BS about "soul"!

 

Nothing wrong with customizing an '03 Navigator... it's just not the tune we dance to here.

 

Is the process of improving a factory new vehicle traditional, of course.

Is a 200X (fill in the X) vehicle "traditional"? I'm going to say no on that one. I'm sure they are nice and MUCH better than stock, especially coming from someone with the experience and talent you post, but still no IMHO.

 

I see where you are going with this. I don't see anything wrong with it. I did a PT when they first came out too. The dealer thought I was nuts 'cause I got it with all the power options, no roof rack or sunroof, and no tinted glass. I just wanted to do something with a brand new car... sold it for everything I had into it and more.

Not to steer the thread in another direction, but do you have / have you posted any pics of your cars? What 13 were in mags?

 

Well, I've been doing it for 45 years and gotta agree with you, yes, guys did that back then......bought a new car and then customized it. For the younger guys on here, check out some of Andy Southard's books on rods and customs in the '50's and '60's...that's what guys did back then.
So is it traditional? I would say that the behavior of customing a new car is traditional; as to whether the car is traditional: I'm not going there.

 

There's a fellow here in Ohio that did a cruiser like a pickup and also customized another. First class work and definitely following the footsteps of the original customizers.
These cars simply are not what we are interested in or what the Hamb is about. I am sure you know that.
My biggest complaint of the new cars was that they simply didnt have any design that made them stand out. Too much plastic and no chrome bumpers.
The big three has come up with some new designs from younger designers that are beginning to follow a more traditional approach to design. I like it. At least we can now tell the differences on some models. I really dont think you find anyone here who think customizing a new car is not a traditional approach.

 

This is a question that comes up with my brother and I quite often. I am building a '54 Chevy 210 and he has a '30 Model A right now. But on top of those cars we both have late model pickups. I have an s-10 and he has a silverado. We always question whether we should take our trucks to a local cruise night because of how new they are. Even though we have used traditional cues to build them such as hand louvered hoods and frenched tailights as well as hopped up engines. We still question taking them. So my two cents on this subject is that, a new car can be built using traditional techniques and styling cues but it is not a traditional rod or custom. I guess the word traditional speaks for itself. By using a new car you a going against what is "traditionally" thought of as a Hot Rod. Does this make it any less cool? No. I have been seeing a lot of really cool trucks being built with traditional themes is the past few years. And I am not talking about the ones that call it a hot rod because it has Flat paint and some red steelies. Some of them really show that they have a real respect for tradition and the hot rodders of the past. They just decided to use a different subject to apply these themes and ideas. For HAMB realted purposes I would say newer cars do not fit the mold even if they traditionally built. But that does not mean people should not respect the amount of work that goes into one. It just means that this site has a specific niche of what is covered. And because it IS sooo specific in nature, I think that is why there is such a high level of respect for this message board. Keep building what ever you like. You have been doing this shit twice as long as I have been living. So for that I will respect what ever you put out.

 

There was no such thing as "traditinal" in '54. I guess I could be wrong, there could have been a small group of "traditionals" in 54 that were "living the lifestyle". They were upgrading their buckboards but only with "traditional" parts that were available in the late 1800's!

All Joking aside... I do think Dennis has a valid point about the term "Traditional" and how it is defined in the English Language! I love the history of Hot Rodding but the truth is that the spirit of traditional Hot Rods and Customs was to create something that was unique and had never been done before. To my knowledge it was never a tradition to use 40-50 year old technology to build a Hot Rod or Custom.

I have always thought the term "Nostalgia Rods" was a much better way of expressing the true spirit of what people are calling "Traditional Rods" today. It makes sence that you could not consider a "Late model" custom a Nostalgia Rod...

Just my 2¢...

Dave Brisco

 

There's the tradition of customizing, which I think you're touching on with doing a new car. Then there's traditional customizing, that is doing mods to a car of an older vintage in the manner in which they would have been done when that car was new.

I have nothing against customizing a new vehicle it's just that most new vehicles don't appeal to me in a manner other than utility.

 

you are correct, they did customize new rides back in the day (and kids have been doing it since then).. what do you think the mini-truck/ full size trucks guys were/are doing. same with compacts.. those are generally accepted rides to do that to. Muscle cars dont seem to fall into that category of something that is/was custom material (never really done back in the late 60's was it).. but it depends on what you deem customizing..

the subject of new tradition vs old tradition (in general terms) I think fits this board as it educate newer members to the hotrod community about history and how it has changed (whats accepted and whats not) , what does not fit (in my opinion) on this board is discussions on how you plan to customize you new ride...

 

All while those guys were customizing their brand new 55 chevys, there were a group of custom saddle makers sitting back and staring at their mounts with pride, and deriding the 55 chevy's lack of soul.

Some things never change.

A true gearhead can appreciate ever aspect of the hobby, even if some are favorites.

 

All this talk about tradition,I need a traditional beer! My '06 chevy is customized with traditional elements but it is not a traditional hot rod I don't see alot of chevy pickups at cruise nights.My coupe on the other hand is a 60's rod built that way just like then, 20 year old kid in his parents garage,my bike a survivior untouched all original 60's honda not traditonal just old! Words have different meanings to different folks call them what you will just please don't call them "ratrods" all I know is I like 'em and this beer!

 

I was thinking the very same thing.

 

Great point Boones.

I think he was going with this. Not so much how to do it - buy new PT, HHR, etc. - log on to web - order parts - sign check here... but more of why "new" cars are "customized" i.e. it has been done traditionally for decaeds.

 

Also a great point.

 

I'm still wanting to see the pics of your cars too.

 

Man people just love these kind of threads!

 

It makes money for the shop which keeps the doors open. Can't get much more traditional than that.

 

Denis 's point is well taken . "The spirit of customizing is alive and any car is fair game". The question is when will it become accepted and who's designs and work will be considered "traditional" or old style . Only time will tell. Bring the question up in 50 years or so to see what the definition has changed to accept.

 

Tradition= primer to most folk, you could take a street rodded car from the 80's all digtial and billet, change the wheels to red steelies with white walls, and black primer, and watch the folk at a car show go gaga, then take a painted car built first rodded in the later 50's early 60's with most of the features done then and still on the car, including the same color it was painted then, but with shiney paint, and people dismiss it as a street rod.

I avoid the term altogether.

 

If anybody anywhere would sell a Car that would be within my budget, and would do what I think it needs to do as far as performance, style, and longevity, I would have bought one.

And I'm not limiting myself to Detroit either...

What a Tradtionally modified car does for me is,
It allows me to own something that will not go out of style...ever.
Give me more performance than I can afford to buy from a new Car Dealer.
And the Car I start with is already older than a Brand New one is expected to last...

Just look at how patheticly dated the Miata's, New Bugs, PT's, Prowler's, T Bird's, etc look just a couple of years after they were built.

 

Good point Alex. We're also overlooking the obvious: New cars are made from poor materials throughout. I don't see any future kids restoring or rodding a classic Taurus, or even a '98 Mustang 30 years from now. There simply won't be the material to work with.

 

I seriously don't get the question. It's dumb.
Do you really think that just because the focus of THIS message board is on pre 65 style Customs and Hot Rods that you can't enjoy something different?

This place is a meeting point for people who have a certain mindset.
Other boards focus on different eras and even other forms of vehicles.
Its not a shock to most people and you can become a part of as many boards as you like!!!

It's like TAKEOUT man! You go where the "food" you WANT is served.

I mean...You can piss and moan, cuss and pound your fist on the counter of the "CHINATOWN Restaurant" till your blue in the face...but you WON'T be walking out with PIZZA.

 

I could see the need for a new vehicle if I had a couple hour commute every day..
I would want a device that would get me there and back with a minimal amount of fuss and expence.
( use it up, and toss it after a certain number hours of use )

Just like I need a device that brews a Cup of Coffee every morning.
Thats a important part of my daily routine, but I'm not customising my Coffeemaker...

In my opinion, bolting Whitewalls, Fenderskirts, or whatever to a PT just turns it into a bigger joke...

 

Then quit thinking about customizing a PT cruiser and do a man's car. Once you've put some seat miles on a late model Z28, or Z06 vette, or CTS-V, or SRT hemi, or any of the other big horsepower cars......becomes obvious why some may look at late models. They'll kick ass around a corner, in a straight line, or under braking. If truly rounded performance mixed with comfort is a priority, lots easier to do it with late models. Late models will never be a 32 ford. But they're not all PT cruisers and wussy-ass overpriced T-birds.

New cars will never be the same as 30s, 40s, and 50s cars. In some ways that's a bad thing. In other ways it's a great thing. Late models require a higher degree of dedication to modification. Lots of traditional guys lack that dedication and pronounce them "crap" unfairly

 

Crap?

No, maybe not.

But not even close to what I want to own...

 

Just don't go throwin wide whites, steelies and woodgrain on yer PT Looser then cruise it into the car show. UGH!!!!

 

Traditionally speaking.................................................I like Hot Rods.

 

It's not what but where and when.