is it possible to make my own V8-60 axle? ive been back and forth alot on what to use for a front axle on my car I was all but set to make spring perches for a 34 axle today when i thought....i wonder if i could just make a tube axle? what I'd like to know is....what thickness is the tube on a stock ford axle? can i use, say.....1/4" wall 4130 chromolly? then machine the ends out of thicker wall and ream to fit the kingpins? then just put some thick wall through for the spring perches? I'm not concerned with the work involved in making it accurate as to the camber and location of things... what im concerned with is the strength of the actual tubing anyone have any dimensional drawings of a stock ford tube axle or any experience making one? seems all the sprint cars are running home made axles? what materials do they use? thanks for any help Zach
Zach, You have an excellent pioneering approach to this subject. I would want to have "proper" thickness for the high stress region(s), one of which is usually the cantilevered end, which holds the kingpin, and close evaluation of the wishbone joint area. The welding penetration and "temper" of the material are concerns as well. If you are planning on road miles, then you will build it to suit the fatique demands (the car is light, this is in your favor). This may mean some magnuflux (or similar) after a good "test" period of time.
There is a guy in the cl***ifieds that sells "T-Bucket Plans" that include plans for an Axle. Just a thought.
I know Pete and Jakes uses 1/4" wall 1018 DOM for their axles. I would think 1/4" 4130 would easily outmatch that in terms of strenth.
Not that they are everywhere or plentiful but those old Plymouth tube type axles are somewhat easier to find and look pretty good also.
I've made straight axle's many times from 1/4" wall chrome moly, Also done the ends the same way. I mill the ends for accuracy and then TIG weld them on. Steve.
I made this one from 2" X .250" DOM. I "rolled" it using a "feed along" method with one of those cheapo Harbor Freight pipe benders (2" pipe dies shimmed to fit the tubing O.D.). It's rolled to a 96" centerline radius with the ends sloped up at 9 degrees....same as the kingpin inclination of my spindles. No angled fish-mouths at the ends because of that.
Thats a DAMN nice piece! Your not easy Johnny... It isn't the tools...its the guy using them in my book.
They are pretty detailed, and should be worth looking at . I think $20 will get a set offa E-Bay or the back of a Mag.. I am concerned about the "Made in India" stickers on some Speedway parts I'm running. I don't think we are getting any real ***urance the aftermarket parts we are getting are the quality I want.. If I get the right iron, and fab the pieces up and get a certified local welder to burn it for me, I'd be more comfortable.. PA
thanks guys for all the info does anyone have a v8-60 alxe handy? I'm trying to figure out the diameter of the tube and get some good clear pictures of it I'm thinking of maybe making one with the spring peches closer together to help with the tires rubbing..a little more like a 32-36 axle any of you who've made them....how did you do the hole for the tapered pin that holds the kingpin? another piece of tubing? i was going to s**** the idea of making one of these because the twisting from split wishbones/hairpins has always really bothered/worried me with using a tube axle but the more i thought about it... chromolly has a good bit of elastic memory and if i can put a curve in it like johnny fast did....or like a stock Ford axle...this eliminates a straight section of tube between the wishbones and I'm thinking eliminates the axial twisting...since its a bend/curve it will be more of a bending force on the tube as it wont have a specific centerline to "twist" on so I'm thinking it will work and hold up to everyday driving conditions maybe this is why the originals have lasted this long too, even being used in track roadster racing which has to be more demanding then road use? thanks Zach
used to have a guy make tube axles for my midget. it's harder to get right than it looks. the guy I had making them had to make a steel plate with adjustable fixtures to hold the kingpin tubes in place during welding then ream them out after they were welded. these were machined from steel btw not tubing. the hole for the tapered pin must be roughed out with a drill then a tapered reamer.
The hole for the kingpin retainer is NOT tapered. They are the same from both sides. There is no front or back to a Henry Ford axle. Zach, I think your "Ford guru in training" certificate should be temporarily revoked. Now, back to one of your questions: This retainer hole could be bored into the kingpin boss of your axle, with plenty of meat surrounding it. Make the boss same diameter as stock Ford and there should be no problems. I always thought a stock Ford 60 axle looked rather flimsy with the kingpin boss hollowed out on the outboard side. Anybody else think the same.
Zach, I was thinking about the 1/4 elliptics and single lower control arm(?) approach, would this work better w/a tube axle, than splitting the wishbones? An I-beam doesn't mind the twist, but tubes...
Tube axle center with I beam ends......37 axle cut the end and put I beam drops inserted and welded into the center tube, I must say Zach your brain is always thinking in the right direction keep it up it's nice to see old/new pioneers back in the Hot Rodding world.
You have a local race car axle builder up the road in Sinking Springs, Pa., probably has all the parts you need to build an axle and some advice on how to do it. Requires .812 boss which is same a Midget axle.
I have a dumb metallurgical type question... In the old Direct Connection ch***is manuals I have, it says if you weld up a frame/rollcage, etc, with 4130, it needs to be stress relieved. Would the same hold true for an axle? Does it see the same stresses? Just curious, for later knowledge. Jay
This from www.race-dezert.com In discussion about tubing and roll cage const. Q. Do I need to heat treat (stress relieve) 4130 after welding? A. Thin wall tubing normally does not require stress relief. For parts thicker than .120", stress-relieving is recommended and 1,100ºF is the optimum temperature for tubing applications. An Oxy/Acetylene torch with neutral flame can be used. It should be oscillated to avoid hot spots. {there was much material worth reading about the issue, try a search on 4130 stress relieving}
End forgings of the Ford tubes are interesting and gnarly pieces; nothing too improvised is going to make it look like original... A how-to thought: Rework an undropped beam axle end so kingpin hole looks like one from tube...undropped so heat treat of orig is not gone, since you are removing metal from a part that can kill you... Weld ends of beam axle into heavy tube...then FAKE the necessary round cross section of the forged end with a partial jacket on front and same on rear, an axial slice from a slightly curved tube on each side that leaves the top and bottom of forged stump exposed, continues curve into round cross section jacket front and rear. Ends of said jackets where they connect to real tubular center are carefully cut and welded to simulate the distinctive original joint... Cross section of ends would be so: (I) , with a slightly bigger capital "I"... CAD drawing copyrighted... I have a tubular you can borrow, on a hunt you down and slay you and your entire family basis of trust...you'd have to pick it up, too damn irreplaceable to trust in the mail.
I might look for a second opinion... The aircraft guys use a lot of thin stuff (.028, .035, .049, etc) for structure, and I've been told that they stress relieve their welds. Of course, I'm not a certified A&P, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night... But seriously, I'd double check - just because I might be right, and an axle is pretty ****in' critical. BTW, this might be interesting... http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/503,171_Weld-In-Axle-Ends.html -bill
thanks everyone for all the input... i have the metal supplier checking on the price of the chromolly right now if i can afford it...I'm gona give it a shot... i'll play it by ear with everyones input in mind but i think i have an idea of how to make it work bruce, I'd love to have your axle to copy...but the long drive isnt in the cards right now im again going to start a pe***ion for an extra 10 hours in the day sleep is overrated but even without it...you only have 24 hours and i have to be here at my day job for 8.25 of them!!! **atleast i spend most of it on the internet learning things** thanks alot everyone i'll post progress pictures if it works out...might be a while though as the garage is getting a bit of reorganizing right now to fit in the endless mounts of junk that keep arriving at the door unexpectedly thanks sixcarb for the comment....im trying! things might not work out....but im trying thanks Zach
Bruce's modified I beam is a good idea, I've come across a couple filled axles that were just brazed sheetmetal covers. Isn't this for the car that your selling though? Unless your gonna make a couple of them, I'm sure thats the plan, it just doesn't seem like a positive selling point to say- "that's my first tube axle experiment" on a car thats gonna be sold undriven/untested. Is a '36 I beam axle have similar dimensions? If so just throw in a $50 '36 and start working on that nosepiece! Your value per hour will go alot longer. travis aka zibo
The how to is in a old secrets mag I have. Jan 93 by Robert Roof the man himself. ***led "Building racing motors and cars from stock cars." 1940
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