Chevy inline & side draft intake

here's the skinny:

a chevy 292 with a mild cam in my '53 chevy 210.
originally i was planning for a 2x2 Offy set up through Tom Langdon...

BUT, i've recently become VERY interested in the side draft stuff (dellorto, webber, etc.)
i know clifford sells a side draft intake for my 292.
my question is,...would this be overkill on my "just above stock" 6?
i'm not looking to produce crazy H.P.....mainly just a fun cruiser that sounds mean will GO when i want it to. and with all the buddies i've got doing similar builds....i wouldn't mind having a different intake set up either

the drive train is, 292 inline(thats in the shop right now getting a mild performance cam, lifters, and springs)
a TH350 with a '73 Nova(non-posi) 3:08 rear.

i'd like to hear from you guys that have run or run the side draft stuff on Chevy inlines....and what my pros and cons will be. i wouldn't mind seeing some pictures either!

thanks

Chris

 

I'd like to see this as well. I'm have not made a final choice on what intake and carbs I am going to use either. Please more info and pictures!

 

I havent gotten mine totally roadworthy yet, but it starts right up and runs well so far. 3 side draught Dellorto DHLA 40s. Everyone at work says "too much trouble", but they're the 350 Chevy/4bbl Holley crowd. (nothing wrong with that).
Hell, if they are a pain to keep running, they'll be converted into throttle bodies and injected.
I don't think it'll be too much carburetion.
Maybe swap out that 350 for a 700R4

 

How did you decide what size carbs to go with?

 

contact geminiefi, he has a inliner setup I saw in a post that was really cool, I lost the pics I had saved but I remember the coolness.

 

What I think would be the coolest is an electronic version of the injection on the (IIRC) May 1953 Hot Rod cover. Three throttle bodys with ram stacks out the driver's side of the head (GMC). But the build on a 270 (or a 302) is on the horizon still.

 

One of the coolest setups I have seen is on **** Bertolucci's '33 or '34 Chevy roadster. 292 with sidedrafts. Reliable as can be. He is an Inliner with a ton of experience and knows this stuff. Everytime I hear sidedrafts dont work on the street I think of him. Getting to know him has been woth my dues to inliners

 

yea, i've seen pictures of your set up before on here....very cool!

yea, eventually the plan may be a 700R4, but i've got a freshly rebuilt Th350 sitting in my garage doing nothing....so i'll use that for now.
and the Th350s are a bit cheaper than the 700s,...and i'm just a poor kid building a hot rod

 

For what it's worth I went from a 350 with 3.08 gear to a 700 with 4.10 gear. all I got for my time and $$ was .3 in the 1/4. Not worth it to me. In a 250 Chevy.

 

thanks man!

 

and on top of all that, what s the difference between the dellorto 40s and 45s?

i ask cause the clifford intake says "its for the webber 45s"....just curious...

in my searching its been easier to find 40s than 45s...just wonderin'

 

My understanding is that the Dellortos use the same size designator as the Webbers. That would be the throttle bore size in millimeters.

 

thats what i was ***uming, just wanted to make sure they will fit the same bolt pattern on the intake.

thanks alot!

Chris

 

Here's my 194. My setup is from Pierce Manifolds in Gilroy, CA.

 

sweet, yea i was just searchin and saw this pic of your set-up....it's SICK!

i've been hearing alot about Pierce Manifolds since i started this quest on side draft stuff...
i'm sending you a PM right now...

thanks man.

Chris

 

The difference between the 40 and the 45 carb is simply the venturi diameter ( that applies to the downdraft or the sidedraft versions). You can actually buy the venturi's and fit them to any Weber licensed carb. I think there are even larger venturi bores, but above two are the most common. They are wonderful carbs when they are in sync, and you can tune them to get virtually the same horsepower as injection. There was only 10 hp difference between the BMW 2002 injected and the carburetted version. But throughout most of the rpm band, the carbs were equal to the injection. The back yard mechanic can do wonders with these carbs with a little practice..
And don't they look awesome? That is why I am putting 4 , 45 DCOE side drafts on my 454 powered 55 Chev Cameo. If I can't find a used manifold, I am going to make one.
Bob
The English Jag ran a 3.8 liter engine ( approx 240 ci ) with 3 SU side drafts that w

 

I 'll stick the cat a**** the pigeons here.Theres lot of Weber info out there,and theres even some little books published on how to tune them properly with a section on intake design and length of runners.
So heres my bit of contraversy,I have seen those intakes before when Kay Sissel was selling them.I nearly bought a set until some one told me to check with Weber because the design is **** house.
You cannot expect 45 DCOE webers to deliver any where near full power if they feed into one intake.
they are designed to feed one cylinder per throttle bore.the idea is that you tune each cylinder for full power individually , Even the venturis size can be altered ,not only the jets.
But if you have each pair of venturis feeding into one siamesed port you have just wasted a whole stack of cash.it would be more efficient to run three 2 1/2 S.U's or three side draft carbs from an early Vette.
if you want power you do it this way.

 

thanks soo much for the info and the picture!
thats exactly the info i'm trying to find out.

can you explain this picture to me in more detail....it looks(as you were saying) that each 2 barrel, rather than being funneled into 1 port is split between 2 ports.

i really like to get more info on this. i'm not looking to build a major power plant inline,...just something that has some "surprising go", something that people are surprised is an inline.

thanks again!

 

damn straight it looks good!
but i'm trying really hard to find out all the info i can on these and see is the money will be worth it.
i've been told about tuning these and that it's really not too bad...actaully, i know an "old timer" that swears they're easier than "traditional" 2 barrels.

thanks.

Chris

 

early 50s stock corvette intake.

 

I just figured 45s would be too large. I'd seen 40s used on the 250 Chevys before.
We're building a street cruiser / family hauler, not drag racing, so better to err on the small side with carburetion!

I think you can swap out the venturis to 45s pretty easily.
If my wife feels these carbs are too small, we're gonna have a little talk!

 

yes exactly that.The 45 DCOE is actually two carbs,NOT a twin barrel single carb ( like a 97 as an example) so each barrel feeds one cylinder.
They were first used in 1938 on various grandprix cars.I love em but they are seriously expensive piece of gear.
I'm just trying to rack my brain at the moment for the name of the weber books,I am sure amazon will have listing for them ( i sold mine on fleabay.. ) .
I note that kay sissel doesn't get much of mention on this site but he was actually racing inlines while cliffords were concentrating on selling speed gear.
Kay Sissel also adapted a SBC head and a 1/2 to a 292 chev....
Cross flow, 12 port, chev rocker gear,simple or simply complicated.

The engine in the pic demonstrates the proper use of webers,each venturi feeding one cylinder,and the set up was tuned in Italy at the weber factory.
It's an Aussie Chryser hemi 6. 0-60 in 6.5 seconds with a sound to give you goose bumps.
Chrysler were the experts when it came to factory hot sixes,the hyper pack manifold for the 170 slant six(200+ HP!!) was the most extreme example.I measured one once to make a copy and the intake runners were 11" long!.(clifford sell one today)
There are few options,i would go for boring extra ports..or designing manifold using the formula developed by Chrysler back then.
Someone, I think a brilliant engineer by the name of Bob Graham, deduced that if they tuned the intake runner to the point where the resonance was greatest, it would give the maximum push to the air and fuel when the intake valve opened at any given speed. The theory proved correct in the tests of the single cylinder( a 354 hemi with only one piston) and the results were reduced to a formula that was used from that day forward for ram manifolds on Chrysler engines. The runner as measured from the valve seat to the plenum (the open area where they normally meet under the carburetor,) can be determined by dividing 84,000 by the length of the runner = the speed the runner will work the best. An example is:
84000 (constant) = 5250 rpm
16 (runner length)
The formula worked with all camshaft designs tested, engine displacements, compression ratios, and bore and stroke combinations of the time.
An exhaust tuning formula was also developed on the single cylinder test stand. An example is:
205000 (constant) = 5256 rpm
39 (length of exhaust runner to collector)
On the exhaust tuning they found that they could flatten out the torque curve by adding length to the collector (the point where all the runners meet.) The collector on an engine with all cylinders operating was usually a tube measuring about 20% smaller than the total of all the exhaust runners.



I've been a fan of the chevy six ( but only ever built a couple) for a very long time and i think theres plenty of potential for a powerful street engine in there somewhere.

 

thanks sooo much!
thats alot of great info!

if anything, it may be something that i look into later down the road, once my 292 needs a rebuild.
right now that one i've got is pretty fresh, so i'm just looking to get as much out of it without major surgery.(bolt ons, cam, lifters, etc.)

i may still run this intake set-up...i mean, it can't make any less than a standard 3x2 or 2x2 set up, could it?

 

Of course there are always the 3 choke Webers the Porsche 6's used ($$$$$$ though). You could make a stub 'manifold' to hold one of them upright. It wouldn't be the perfect setup as you still don't have 1 Barrel / Cylinder, but the linkage would be immensely easier. This all ***umes you could fit it under the hood.

As for the size designator, I was always taught the number was the OD of the venturi (or the throttle bore size), was I misinformed?

 

As for the size designator, I was always taught the number was the OD of the venturi (or the throttle bore size), was I misinformed?[/quote]

nah, i believe you are right

 

Yeah, the size designator is in fact the throttle bore size. The venturis are removable and the smaller venturi you install the lower the rpm range you make torque because the airspeed is higher.

Here is a small extract from the page in the link that follows:
<TABLE cellSpacing=1><TBODY><TR><TD><B><BIG>Size </BIG></B></TD><TD><B><BIG>Available Venturi sizes</BIG></B></TD></TR><TR><TD><B><BIG>40 </BIG></B></TD><TD><B><BIG> 24-36mm</BIG></B></TD></TR><TR><TD><B><BIG>42 </BIG></B></TD><TD><B><BIG> 24-34mm</BIG></B></TD></TR><TR><TD><B><BIG>45 </BIG></B></TD><TD><B><BIG> 28-40mm</BIG></B></TD></TR><TR><TD><B><BIG>48 </BIG></B></TD><TD><B><BIG> 40-42mm</BIG></B></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This page has quite some info on selecting carb size and other tuning parts:
http://members.aol.com/dvandrews/webers.htm

 

Mercmad, you're right on with the one port, one barrel theory. For me, though, I just use what I got, and make it happen. And, if you're not going for full-out power, three side draughts will work fine!

Helluva fine engine you have there! Stunning!

 

I know you're not looking to make huge power, but Leo Santucci just got done building a 292 drag motor with a hybrid head, turbo, and a lot of very expensive machinr work...and the beast makes over 1000HP!!!
http://www.customdesignperformance.com/leo/leo.html is the link to Leo's monster

For my money, while the Webers certainly look really cool, they're also damn near $1000 for a set of three, outside the cost of the manifold, linkage, etc. I scored a rebuilt Edelbrock 600cfm 4bbl off ebay for $150, and for the mild 292 in my '63 Biscayne, it was a great match. IMO, go with a 4 barrel and save yourself some cash.

 

I wouldn't think of mounting Webers in any other way than one bore per cylinder and forgot to mention that when I wrote earlier. The names of two very good, readily available books on Weber Carbs are:
Weber Carburetors Haynes #393
Weber Carburetors Pat Braden, HP Books #774

I was able to purchase rebuilt Webers, and Mikuni ( Japanese licensed Webers ) for $200 each in Canada.
I figure that my project is going to cost over $1000, and I am making my own manifold. I have a 780 Holley and 435hp Vette manifold presently on the engine, which cost me $200,00 and is reasonably efficient, but four cross mounted Webers will just look beautiful to me, and that is what rodding is all about.
On a Dyno, 4 DCOE's on a sbc with a cross ram manifold at 3000 rpm produced 90 ft lb more torque (406 v 322) and 59 more hp, (376 v 317). The numbers favored the Webers by a larger margin up to 6000 rpm.
Bob

 

My Dellorto's cost like $400 direct from Italy on ebay, some guy named alfa-something. Has a good rep, lots of these things!
I literally bolted them on and they run well so far, haven't even adjusted base idle yet!
Car starts, runs, runs good!