Banger Speedster mockup question - B Banger in a 27 T Fame?

I am slowly collecting parts for a Speedster build. I have a good B banger mill, well its actually a ******* B with a real nice A block with all B parts. Odd setup but she runs well, and has a 32 3spd on the end. I am looking to use a nice 27 T frame I picked up with an A rearend.

Anyone had any issues or experience with installing an A/B banger in a 27 T frame?

Let me know and post some pictures if you have them.

Thanks

 

I asked this question before and was underwhelmed by the response...

Here's some pics of my mockup, all A stuff. I trimmed down the Model A rear mounts to fit in the T frame. Wasn't altogether happy with the solution and pulled it all out again to use the engine in my Fordor. Complicated by building it RHD too...

Still thinking about rebuilding my 27 Tourer with a A or B banger in it though...

 

There were plenty of cars built with A/B engines in T frames replacing the T engines previously raced. Race cars in those days were under constant evolution as parts broke, money became available, etc. Ch***is were probably the last thing to be changed after suspensions, and drivetrains had been changed even numbers of times.

 

Just remember T frames are spring steel & made to flex..

All add'd cross members & such should be Rivit'ed or Bolted in NOT
Welded in... Welding T frames causes the metal to crack, Just as you would not weld your leaf springs.

 

Thanks for the pictures...anymore out there?

DE SOTO

Good piece of advise thanks!

 

I don't have any current pictures but I have a "T" frame with a 1 man round back body. I have a dropped axle from Rootlebs and have modified "T" spindles to use "40" style hubs. I was going to box the frame at rear mount are and drill through the frame and plate and make a spacer up to fit between this and frame with tubing spacers to keep frame from collapsing. An old timer told me that they used to invert the front crossmember for a drop. I bought a piece of 1 3/4 square tubing and milled out one side for a front crossmember. There was a post on another thread that said to get another frame and put the right side into the left side and vise a verse for boxing. The frame I have was welded on the rear to lower it in the ancient past and hasn't cracked.

 

I would think it would be fine to weld in some engine mounts, on the other hand rivited brackets would be cool too.

 

just curious, what kind of body are you using?

 

The original source of the "don't weld on Model T frames" admonition was Murray Fahnstock. He was a reliable source of T speed advice. I'm not sure whether he got this one right, or not.

 

I have heard this for years but have seen or heard of very few cracks at welds. At the time of Murray 's writings most shade tree mechanics did not have access to arc welders and most work was done with a torch. I can remember only 1 of my high school friend's whose father had an arc welder and maybe 2 with gas welders. I do remember being told not to weld across the top or bottom of a frame rail. On truck frames they bolted or riveted plates to repair or extend the frame, these were called fish plates.
More trivia for you!

 

"Spring Steel" ...or Vanadium Steel. I think Vanadium is what you are thinking. Mucho difference.

As far as welding on these frames, it has been done with great success for years with an ARC, MIG, or TIG welder.

The 2 biggest things I do not like about installing an A/B engine in a T frame is the flywheel housing to frame rail clearance is very tight when installing the motor mount bolts. The other thing is that these frames do twist so I like to weld tabs to the front crossmember so the front cover makes a solid mount too. The rest is pretty straight forward if you can fabricate.

 

Hey Brent - any pictures of an A engine in a T frame - I fancy revising the way mine is mounted. I set it low so that the front pulley lined up with the original T one. Any thoughts?

 

This is what I am thinking for a body style

Yes Brent looking forward to some photos as well!

 

Ford called it "Vanadium Spring Steel", but I'm not sure that the frame was made of steel that fell under that cl***ification. The T frame used Type L high-carbon steel with this composition: .23% -.30% carbon, .35% -.50% manganese, .04% maximum of phosphorous, and .05% maximum of sulfer. Low carbon steel was .05% -.15% carbon.

 

Sorry, didn't realize you were waiting on me.

This is my Dodge speedster that has an A banger on a T frame. As you can see, the cut-down motor mount blocks makes it tight to install the flywheel housing bolts. Hopefully this is enough pix because I have put the car away for the year.

 

Looks kinda like what we built for my daughter last month. Hand-made body (masonite over wooden stringers) and plenty filler over that!

It honestly will "move the mail"! I had a GPS with me and my son, and we had it over 50 mph with just a "stock" Model T engine. Well, OK, ...kinda stock. Color is Hefty "trash bag box" Orange with one dip of Orange Pearl and two dips of Gold Pearl. The '08' number is the year she graduates from high school.

 

Brent

Thanks for those pictures!

 

Ditto. If I may ask, did you just add the "A" crossmember behind the stock "T" front crossmember? That's the way it looks to me.

And, what did you use to hold up the ******? The stock a X member?

Thanks again, the pix are awesome.

Jay

 

Model A crossmember in lieu (not behind) of the 'T' crossmember.

The transmission is a stock Model A. Neither the T frame, nor the Model A frame has a X member that is used to hold the transmission. I have already put the car away for the year so I cannot take any pictures right now.

 

brent is the engine rigid mounted to the cross member instead of the stock spring mount?

 

Yes, ...if you look closely in that upper right photo you will see it is just a piece of .250" thick 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" wide flat bar welded to the crossmember and bolted to the fron cover. This gives the frame a tremendous amount of strength which it needs. Think in terms of an old Ford tractor how the engine and crankcase become the frame too.

 

Back in the early 1970's when I had my first old race car project I had a B motor setup in a T ch***is. I made wood patterns and had aluminum filler blocks cast to fit inside the rails and adapt to the A bellhousing. I'll look around and see if I still have them.

 

thanks brent thats what i thought i was looking at, i need a front mount for my 28 RPU project and was wondering about options...stock replacement isn't very pricey but good to see a different setup

sorry 'bout highjacking the post you can have it back now levi

 

Sounds like a cool mount option...any luck finding them?

 

Using an A frame under a T body was very popular option too.
Lots of sprint cars and speedsters also sat on mid-late 20s Es*** rails with Model A front and rear crossmembers.