Have any of you ever had the experience of having a car project go in exactly the direction you never wanted it to go??? By that, as an example, I mean...did you ever take on a project with a few good ideas, and then throw in the kicker along the lines of "whatever I do with this thing...it won't be _________!!!"...and then find yourself in the position that the only way to get the thing on the road is to do what you absolutely never wanted to do with it?? It wouldn't be any type of a stumbling block I guess if it were a car you weren't all that crazy about to begin with...you could just say "Screw it!", then sell it off and forget it. But...if it's a car that you really love, then what do you do? Do you: 1. Just work past your guilt over having to take it in a direction that you absolutely despise just to get it on the road and enjoy DRIVING it...or... 2. Suck it up and sell it off rather than compromise your principles just to build a car like every other one and be able to drive it??? I've been wrestling with this for a while now, and nothing is getting done because of it. The car in question isn't a HAMB-type car, but it IS a project car, and as such, comes along with all the usual hic-cups and hurdles that every hot rodder encounters along the way...so I ask the advice and input of those who have been there with their own projects...whatever they may happen to have been. It goes like something like this: I love small block Fords. Never had a problem with them, and likely never will. They're GREAT motors, and I know how good they can run and all that...blah blah blah! BUT...I think the idea of dumping a gimpy old 302 into my car would just make it exactly like every OTHER one out there (a Mustang)...so what is the point in it?? I could BUY a running, driving 302 powered Mustang II for less than it would cost to outfit mine with a decent 302...so again, what's the point in it? A 351W swap is only a half-step better in my eyes...but it does have a LITTLE more credibility to my way of thinking. Problem is...been there, done that! I already built a 351W powered 77 Ghia and I don't exactly want to do another one...although the first one was lots of fun to drive when it was done. A 351C swap would be cool...except for the fact that those engines are difficult to find (in RUNNING condition...every schmuck has a blown up, dissassembled or twenty-year-dormant one it seems!) and people who have 'em price them like they're Boss 429s or something! I already tried a 390 FE swap that COULD'VE worked if I wanted a real-life 'Zinger' with the engine sitting way up there...or a dopey looking car with a straight axle set-up under the front...but I pulled the plug on that idea...I don't want anything like THAT for this car! There was a point that I considered a 170 or 200 inline six swap, too! That is, until I checked out the oil pan on one of those abortions (who's idea was it to put the sump in the MIDDLE instead of way up front where it belongs?! Ha Ha!)!! It wouldn't fit any better than a 390...again, because of the steering rack. (Which brings up a valid point...how the hell do you put ANY engine in a car with that vastly over-rated Mustang II steering system in it? The rack is in the way of any engine equipped with an oil pan...unless said engine came out of a Mustang II and has a pan designed just for that type of car?!) I've seen Mustang IIs and even a couple Pintos with small block Chevys in them in the past, and I'd even be willing to go down that road...but I just don't see HOW! In addition to the dubious steering rack, there's a cross-brace behind the crossmember that the steering rack bolts to (and sits way above for whatever reason!) that would be exactly where the rear sump of a small block (or BIG block?! ) Chevy oil pan would need to go! Ha Ha...guess that dispells the viscious rumor that a small block Chevy "fits in anything", eh?! So...in my mind...building a 302 or 351W powered Mustang is just as bad as building a flat black death rod with red wheels, wide whites and a small block Chevy...the world just does not need ANOTHER one! I love this car...it's a 74, which is unique as far as these things go, and my favorite year by far! I want to drive the thing someday, and it's a virtually rust-free California car with a really nice interior to boot! That said, I guess a 302 is the way to go, but I can't get enthused about that idea at ALL...and would hate myself for doing it. What's a dude to do?? Just take a car that you love and turn it into something you never wanted just for the sake of getting it DONE...or simply swallow the tears and let it go?? (I know...I know...with the hood closed, who cares what's under it, right?! Well...yeah...but it's hard to get motivated to work on something if your heart isn't in it, thus...it never gets to the point where it can be driven!)
Put the 302 in it. And drive it. If you still cant live with it, you'll have a running vehicle to sell, instead of a project. A 302 long block from napa is around $900 last time I checked.
What yr muskrat? Suspensions are usually in parallel with the engine offered in the car. IE 460 in a 6 cyl equipped car would make that a dive bomber around turns.
What about a turbo four out of an 80's mustang or t-bird? They are supposed to be screamers aren't they?
Use the 302. It will be stone reliable and you can drive it on trips and find parts anywhere. Now days more people want the wow factor instead of reliability. Dont get me wrong I have a flathead in my 49 but unless I carry a garage of parts I cant find what I need if I break down. So both my trucks are drivers 351 M and 302 mildly warmed over. and Both are highway runners.
A nice stout 428 will provide all of straight line performance and unpredictable handling you can stand. Or go with a a Chevy 327 and thumb your nose at Mustang traditionalists. To be looked upon with awe do a 348 with a Power-Glide. Or an early hemi. Or a flathead or Y-block or Pontiac 389. You'll figure it out.
There's almost no way that you can build a Mustang like no one else has. Put the 302 in it and enjoy it for the time being. You can always swap it out later, for some Kenne Bell fed 331 stroker!
Put a 302 and a stick in it and have some fun. Here's my buddy's '77 Cobra II for some inspiration. It has an EFI roller 302 in it and a T5, 3.55 gears.
Either a Zinger or similar to the black one Gotgas posted. Personally I think the Zingers were way too cool.
there is a 351c for sale localy ,but sisters boyfriend just had his rebuilt and got in deep bout 2k+ last i heard mostly cuase of cracks in the heads (3 set down the drain) my 2 cents get a cheap 351w or BB or my favor sb chevy but good luck on your prodject
Put the 302 in it and drive it while you build the 351C. And I do have one for sale as you described it.
How about Cleveland heads on a Windsor ? There are some good Aluminum heads available now. Windsor heads were probably a better choice for a street motor anyway.Bill Elliot made his name with Windsor heads. How about a Ford 300 six cyl ? Lots of torque. I like the SBC idea.Those engines became popular for a reason. Should be able to find a late model LT1 motor for reasonable money.Roller cam,EFI,decent power.Might be a little wide.
I guess I'm ignorant. I didnt know 351Cs were hard to get. I'm going to Wild West Rods tonight, I think Randy has one laying around, I'll ask. Regarding the six, it's not hard to relocate the sump and modify the pan to clear, is it? Which engine do YOU really want to run in it? Thats your answer.
Admittedly I didn't read the whole post. But if you're not building it how you want, what's the point ?
I wouldnt run a 302 out of a mustang II stock... You can get more power out of a four cylinder than that smog motor. If want want stock run a later model 302. Clevelands are expensive as hell to build period. And fitting it would be about the same a a big block. I suggest a stroker if you are looking fo good power on a descent budget. Use a 347, or a even a 306 crate motor, or check websites like www.chitownracing.com there is tons of that stuff for sale in the forum. You can picked up a used running roller 302 for $200-400 on a regular basis. That's what I am going to run in my roadster. Light car good torque, and cheap readily available parts.
If you can't do what you want, for whatever the reasons are, then don't do it at all, sell it all off and move on. Trust me.
Thanks for the ideas and input so far! I'm not building this car to 'flip', it's intended to be a fun little driver...but I'm also not niave enough to say that "I'll never sell it", either. Resale value on these cars is just about nill...running or not...V8 or not, so anything I do wouldn't adversely effect any future value on the car. As it stands now, I've already modified the car to some degree to prep it for a V8 swap (moved the radiator to the front of the core support, made the frame stands for the motor mounts somewhat adjustable, removed the sway bar, etc.), so it looks like I should go ahead with the 302 deal. I know the car will be reliable and service parts will be plentifull with the small block V8...but shit, you could say that about a stock four door Tempo, too...but that still doesn't make it all that enjoyable to build or own!! Ha Ha! A 2V Cleveland would be perfect...so with that slim hope alive, I went ahead and ordered a set of small block V8 motor mounts for the car today. It just happened that the local speed shop had a 32 Ford frame with a 351W in it sitting in the showroom and I noticed that the motor mounts would be damn near perfect for a Mustang II! (Original V8 Mustang II mounts are 100% unobtanium...and not even neccessarily the best way to go. These aftermarket 'street rod' mounts are much nicer!) So...if nothing else pans out, I guess the car gets a dumpy old 302 as a default plan! I'll just have to convince myself that I'm building the car for someone else...an imaginary customer or something...because there's no way I'd ever build a 302 Mustang for MYSELF! Ha Ha!! Yeah...maybe that's the trick...just say "I'm building this thing for a customer...then driving it a while to work the bugs out!". No fun, for sure...but it might get me past the mental stumbling block I'm having so much trouble with!
Build it with a 302. A 351C has the same bellhousing and engine mounts. When a Cleveland finally comes along, swap it in. You'll have to redo the exhaust and some other things need to move, but this one is pretty easy. In the meantime, you have a driver and it will be fun.
My two ideas are already posted.... Boss 302 / clevor deal, but they're big money ... or a 2.3 4 cylinder. The 2.3 would fit nicely, and can be made to run really well, both n/a and turbo. Power per dollar is better for a turbo motor... There are tons of parts available for these, from companies like esslinger and racer walsh... and stuff pops up on ebay from time to time. Fastest one I remember was in a silver fox body coupe, went mid 9's. That was ten years ago or so... Kamp
do the cleveland! if you cant find one, then put a 351 windsor in it. those should be cheap. that car should be fast even with a stock motor in it!
I only did one job that was "against my better judgement".......and I hated to do it but it was for the guy who signs my paycheck. The Boss owns a matching numbers restored 1958 Corvette. It has the dual quad, solid lifter 283 and four speed. He had me install power steering and a Powerglide. I did it without compromising the car, saved every nut and bolt I took off and it is as clean as they get. I still don't like the idea but it's his and it isn't ruined or anything. I'm not a 100 point restorer kinda guy but some things should be done right or not done at all. Build the car so that it suits you and you are happy with it.....or get rid of it.
Is this the Vintage Mustang Forum or the HAMB...I had to check to see which link I just clicked on to!
A driver is better than a dust gather'er any day! This is My 302. Cheapie valve covers off E-bay and Cheapie Air Cleaner. The spacers are for the Roller rockers. The Cam is quite wild, and this Eldebrock 600 CFM is not enough carb at all. But the Tunnel Ram I did have on it was too much........ Go Figure. Oh yeah, thats a MII aftermarket Crossmember and Stock rest of the MII. You gotta use a rear sump pan. Put the 302 in it.
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