Found a deal on a 351/400M engine and C6 trans setup out of a good running F250. I'm looking for an engine/trans for the 54 F100 and the price is right on this setup but I know very little about this model Ford motor. Good setup or steer clear?
a handful of guys like them...most of us think they're boat anchors. There have been a few threads about hopping them up, did you try a hamb search?
I've got that combo in my Merc. It came with it. Lots of torque...no horsepower. I plan on putting a mild RV cam in it when I rebuild it.
I haven't tried a search here but I did take a look at the FTE 335 forum. I think that the concensus is just what you have said...lots of torque but no HP without making some mods. From what I can gather the engine is easy to mod and is capable of producing much better HP...I guess when you're starting with around 1/2 a HP per cu inch there's no place to go but up!
I like them. Not looking to race one but they are tough and reliable and like Bob said plenty of torque. I put a holley 2 barrel on my rebuilt 351M in my F250 and it pepped it up. Too bad the body and frame are shot but I will keep mine for its third transplant someday.
There are now a few different options for making a 400 perform (it's best to convert a 351M to a 400). See here: http://www.tmeyerinc.com/ He is by FAR the best game in town for getting decent pistons, ones that can actually provide quench in a 400, with an appropriate cylinder head. That being said, if you aren't particularly dedicated to the 400, or don't want to plow some $$ into it, you may want to look elsewhere. They seem to be the most practical when you own a vehicle with one already installed in it.....400s (most blocks) have a unique motor mount bolt pattern & can be something of a pain to swap into a vehicle where they weren't originally offered.
I am not a real big fan of them, but this one was built to the nuts and goes like shit off a shovel....
The FTE 335 forum you mentioned is a goldmine of info on those motors. Tim Meyer is a golden god for the 335 faithful, as Homespun 91 mentioned. I'm a Cleveland owner and fan myself, and the bastard 351M/400 mills are just a step or two away from making serious power. They're really just Boss302 heads breathing on an even greater number of cubic inches... The smog years were'nt kind to them and they are saddled with retarded timing and comromised piston/rod designs. Cleveland heads, straight-up cam timing and qwench piston design work miracles on them... build it and confuse lots of folks.
I have a 351M / C6 combo in my '57 Ranch Wagon that was in the car when I got it. It's big, ugly, heavy, slow and runs kinda hot, but at least it gets terrible gas milage. However, it also runs great and has been very reliable and solid. I wouldn't go out of my way to fool with one, though.
Of course the BOSS was a small chamber head with the huge 4V valves & ports, where the M head is like the C-2V with a slightly obstructed ex port.
I had a 400M with a Holley four barrel on it in an old 78 F150 a few years back. It sounded mean as hell (headers and dual exhaust with cherry bombs) and was damn quick to boot. They're good motors as far as reliability goes. I wouldn't try to make a full race motor out of one, but with an aluminum aftermarket 4v intake, a decent carb, a good distributor (351C and 429/460 distributors all interchange with the 351/400M ones so you can run anything from stock electronic, to stock single points, dual points or whatever!), a mild cam and a good, free-flowing exhaust system...they can run real well! You mentioned that you were considering this drivetrain combo for a truck...in my opinion, it's an EXCELLENT truck motor...stock or mildly modified!
Well, yeah... Boss/4V is a closed chamber, large port/valve head... 2V is open chamber, small (relatively) port/valve head... and BOTH intake & exhaust ports/valves are different on each.... and BOTH have the "obstructed" exh. port... I was just talking about the basic canted-valve, large (all designs) port/valve configuration of all the Cleveland head variations. ...and yeah, Mike is right... the 351M is the weakest (HP) of the family, so if possible try to verify it's a 400 at least. They're dimensionally the same on the outside... at least try to get the 49 free cubic inches! As for reliability, our old family car was a '72 LTD with a 400 that went 340,000 miles until it pooped a head gasket one 120* day here in AZ... I've not run across many domestic motors that have done that kind of duty after spending their entire life here in the desert.
I had a 400M in a 77 F-150 - biggest pile of no mileage and loaded with torque, the only way to turn a tire was a neutral drop - got smoked by my buddies 300 6 with a clifford 4bbl and duals one night. Been a chevy & dodge fan ever since
I had a 77 F250 4x4 when I was a Ford mechanic. I converted it into a 406 with a .030 overbore & 400 crank & rods, Edelbrock SP2P intake {thats all they made then}, mild hydraulic cam, no retard cam gear, 600 Holley , duals, heads milled .030 & seat pockets cutout with 3 angle valve job. No rocket but it would tow the old 351 faster then it would run on its own They can be made to run decent but dollar for dollar it wouldnt be my first pick. Check carefully for block cracks before any machine work
There were a rash of mid-70s 351M engines throwing rods - no doubt mainly due to neglect, but it earned them a reputation (right or wrong). There is no doubt you can make any engine perform reasonably well, but at what price? You still have an anemic (for its displacement), heavy, big engine... But you're building a truck, so it probably doesn't matter. I fall into the "I don't like them" camp - just in case you were still wondering! If I really wanted to build one though, I'd be finding a set of Aussie heads (2bbl ports, closed chamber) as a top priority for a 400 only ("upgrade" a 351M [yes, a true bastard as previously pointed out])
Another source of info: http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/ Good Engines. Just not mainstream like 350 Chevys. Like all Ford engines, you have to know what you are doing when you build/rebuild one. I have one all stock still going at 116,000-- 30 years old now.
I had one that came in a '72 half ton somebody dropped in... It burned about 2-3 qts of (used) oil a week, had no oil pressure, and on a quiet summer night on a long flat piece of road, you could really hear them bearings at work (!)... I liked it anyway, very torquey and VERY reliable and I bet a low mileage one could be had CHEAP. Not a bad choice for a heavy sled... Decent MPG too.
They always got my Bronco's around! Its true, though...you have to know what you are doing. But...considering the years ( and corresponding approach to engine design) that they were offered, there is just a LOT more to do... I don't love 'em...
We had one in an old tow truck and it was one of the most reliable rigs we ever had. We beat the shit out of that thing for years before it died. Great motor for towing, but it was hell on gas. If this truck you're building is a tow rig, a 351m-400m / C6 combo isn't a bad choice. If it's just a truck for driving/cruising, I'd find an 80's Grand Marquis with a 5.0 / aod tranny and use that. They're everywhere, they ALWAYS run, and they're cheap. I saw one the other day that ran great but had been side-swiped and the dude only wanted like $300 for it.
I have a 400 with a C6 I got off a fellow hamber for $200. Was told it ran when pulled. It is complete fan to tranny and carb to pan. It is just sitting in my garage. I am sticking with my flathead. If anyone is interested in it, $200 and it is yours. Pick up only. I am in northeast Ohio.
I have a 351 c in my 71 torino. It's a two barrel, but a cool crusier. Keep it simple with the cam, carb, and a nice set of headers. You'll be happy with it.
The Jalopy Journal
