Here's the story, I have a 64 Belair 4dr wagon that had a very tired 283 in it. I had another 283 in another project car that I thought was better so I sent it out and had it professionally rebuilt, new pistons .040 over all new valvetrain etc etc. I have the engine back and had it in the frame a couple of weeks ago. Little by little I have been putting everything back together. I cleaned and painted everything, added original style power brakes, replace the PS pump, rebuilt the Carter WCFB carb and had a 350trans rebuilt and Installed it with the engine. I have been taking my time trying not to rush. I have the car all put back together with the exception of the trans linkage and 1 tailpipe (I added right side exhaust for duals) For the last week or so I have been fighting with this car to get it started. I ended up having to pull the distributor and adjust it till I finally got it firing on #1 when it was at TDC. It has new points, new coil, new cap and rotor, new volatge regulator, new wires ( I have verified they are on the right plugs) The points are gapped at about .020 the dwell is around 30 deg and the timing is at approx 4 degrees (I have moved it around to other settings to try to get it started) The choke works on the carb just fine. I have had it running a couple of times but never without it spitting and backfiring (before I got the distributor in correctly) Right now it will fire on a couple of cylinders but just wont start. I am really frustrated and feel like a tard that I cant get this damn thing running. I would appreciate some input from all. Thanks Scott
Sounds like a possibility that the timing chain is off a tooth..... OR....if it's one of the timing sets that have the crank gear with 3 notches, it was installed wrong or the gear itself was mismarked (I've seen it happen)...triangle, dot, square not in "correct" spots per instructions.....
Take # 1 spark plug out and get someone to bump the engine while you have your finger on the sparkplug hole. just as the compression pushes the finger off. Look at timing, manually turn crank back until at 0 degs, it should have gone past a few degs. Now pull cap off and see if you are still pointing to number one and post results. I have fixed peoples problems getting car to fire probably 20 times this way. either they have their wires way off or are 180 out after they said they were right on top dead center when they werent. Pour a bit of gas down the carb also. If it backfires and creates a flame, keep cranking and it will **** the fire down into where it belongs.
i had a similar problem last winter. went as far as changing the distributor. new everything except spark plugs...... they looked fine. changed them and it fired up.
nrfleming,this rings true to me,plus its cheap. Could have the plugs fuel fouled.I think I'd try this first. I sure hope sinister customs NOT right cause that means the motors coming back out(but I have seen it before on fresh builds). Whats the history on the distributor? was it off of a motor that was running before? Lastly I think I'd crank a little more advance(counterclockwise) into the distributor. Good Luck, and let us know how its going.
The plugs wires are where they belong (checked them several times) The plugs were new when I started (good point on the fouling though) I am certain the distributor is clocked properly now (started out one tooth off) I spent a lot of time making sure it was right where it belongs plus it shows being properly timed when cranked. Someone suggested the rockers may be too tight, I have seen similar problems act this way. I may adjust them when I have some time Friday, if this turns out to be the problem I am going to be seriously pissed at the shop since I paid a lot for the rebuild. Thanks for the suggestions. Scott BTW.. its killing me to not hear this thing run since I got a new dual exhaust with gl***packs, I am looking forward to hearing this motor sing !
I'm with rapid whippet on this one, you're 180 out. Very common to set it to the wrong TDC without the finger-over-the-plug test, and the timing light will still appear correct. The fact it sort of ran until you "corrected" the distributor puts weight behind this theory. Once I set the engine somewhere between 8 advanced and TDC, set the whole thing up with a timing light and the distributor clamp loose. You should be able to rotate the distributor back and forth (key on) and make the timing light flash. The point of flash is where you wanna snug the clamp down. .020 is a way, way small plug gap. Open em to .030-.035 if it has further problems once running. good luck
I have rotated it 180 degrees, it backfires and spits like crazy, I am sure the distributor is right as of this point. Thats whats driving me crazy, I have fixed all this stuff and still cant get it to run. The points gap is at .020, not the plugs, IIRC the plus are .035 I think my next move is a new set of plugs, with all this screwing around I am thinking I fouled the set in the car, with all the cranking when the distributor was cankered up and the poor or no combustion they would be in bad shape. Scott
Borrow a VERIFIED GOOD coil from a bud and switch 'em out. (Damn Chinese never did figure out how to produce decent auto electricals) It doesn't sound like a timing issue, but damn sure sounds electrical -Betruger-
Scott When we had the valves adjusted too tight on my buddy's Mustang, it acted a lot like your Chevy. A couple of cylinders would light but the car would not run. I started to back off on a couple of rockers and before long she was running.
right now its got a new Pertronix coil in it. I had a couple of old good ones around and they didnt work either.
Good suggestions all above. Since you are going to change the plugs anyway - why not do a compression test while you're at it. This will verify the timing chain and tight lifters. If it is hydraulic lifters it's easy to get them too tight when setting dry and then hold the valves open when oil pressure comes up. Compression, fuel, spark (at the right time). Paul
does it have a ballast resistor ? a cracked one would cause this same problem, and it would also cause it to not run. but the backfiring would suggest the dist. is 180 out, or the timing gears are 180 off.
Just do the thumb over the hole trick and check rotor position. Double check as you said you were already off 180. The coil will fire on the exhaust stoke which will show 0 degrees on the timing mark. Then make sure that rotor is pointing to number one , then double check direction of rotation of rotor and firing order. If all check out, pull plugs and see about compression. This will tell if valves are open. I have never had an engine not fire on the first couple cranks.
Put a little oil in the cylinders when you do the comp test. You may have washed the cyl walls down with raw gas while the dist was off one tooth. Butch
For all that offered their advice, once again "Thanks" As of right now I am waiting for a new dipstick for the trans since the old one leaked and I needed to get that ****oned up before going any further. I had the engine running after finally getting the distributor clocked properly. I ingored the timing mark and got it to TDC on #1 by pulling the plug, I then made sure that the rotor was pointing at the #1 wire on the cap. This got me in the ballpark for timing and I got it started by moving the distributor in small increments. The motor ran well at idle and started fine. The confusing part is that the distributor is clocked where it should be and presumably is timed correctly now, what I dont get is that the timing mark is off on the balancer by about 30 degrees, not sure exactly how that can be since balancer is keyed to the shaft ? I cant help but wonder how that happened. The engine really wouldnt run with the distr clocked in any other position, when I did have the timing mark correct the car absolutely would not run. I am sure that I have a carb adjustment problem because the car will start to spit and backfire if throttled over 2000 rpm. will have to address this after I get the trans ****oned back up, lacking any real experience tuning one of these old carbs (Carter WCFB) and being a little weary of beating my head on the wall I may bite the bullet and buy an Edelbrock of Holley. Thanks again for your advice and help. Scott
If you used a chrome timing chain cover and a bolt on timing pointer, beware---the bolt on timing pointer for a 305 will fit right onto a 350 or 283 with no problems, but the damn thing points to a totally different spot. I nearly went crazy with this fiasco after I put a chrome timing cover and a chrome bolt on pointer on the 305 in my roadster pickup. The timing pointer was for a 350.----Brian
The harmonic balancer has a rubber portion between the outside ring and hub. They are known to slip and change the timing mark location. The backfiring could possibly still be a timing issue.
That would certainly explain the timing mark being off. I am pretty sure that the backfiring is in the carb, I am planning on tweaking the timing a little when I get it fired back up and see if that changes it. Scott
it may be backfiring through the carb, but the cause probably isnt the carb, unless it pops back during acceleration because it is too lean lean. Larry
I cant recall ever using a timing mark to set a distributor haha. My Mercs balancer ate it, same thing basically...instead of slipping the mark though it started coming apart and wobbling all over the place.
I should have said that the backfiring was caused "by the carb" the backfiring comes out the exhaust and only when you have it up to around 2000 rpm and then crack the throttle. I should have my trans parts by the weekend and hopefully will have it ****oned back up early next week. Then I can start tuning. Anyone have any advice on a Carter WCFB ? the shop manual goes through it step by step but I dont have the gauge set they keep reffering to, looks to be a PITA to tune. Scott
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