Chromolly Warning

i was just down at my metal supplier to get some aluminum and he was telling me about the foreign chromolly tubing (4130)

there is another supplier here local to me called Dillsburg Airplane Works
apparently they started buying chromolly made in china. A few local race car builders have been having problems with it. It does not have the same spring back on a bender as the american or german chromolly and doesnt seem to hold up as well on the cars

apparently it doesn't say china on it anywhere just has a series of 3? letters
the american stuff i have been buying is "plymouth" tubing and he also says that he buys tubing from germany that is of the same quality as the plymouth
the good stuff has a military spec on the side of it

just wanted to let everyone know to keep their eyes open
Zach

 

Cool, great news to know since a FED is in the works

 

I was recently told the same thing by my steel supplier concerning square tubing as well. Mebbe its a known industry "wifes tale" so we will buy the marked up U.S. steel. I dunno, I asked for the better stuff of course, knowing recent events, its probably a real threat, more junk from china.

 

The whole metal sourcing deal is a can of worms lately. Some of the Chinese moly evidently is OK and there have been some problems with 4130 extruded in this country from German bar stock. I know of one race car builder who had problems with Chinese manufactured aluminum but he was also talking with a Chinese supplier about ***anium and the initial metalurgical reports looked good.
I deal with a single supplier here in Indy for 4130 and they are very particular about what they buy in, testing samples etc. In general the moly currently being supplied is not as good as what was available say 10 years ago. It still meets the specs for tensile strength and purity but is on the low side of the tensile numbers and on the high side re impurities.
In addition some of the moly now comes with a heavy phosphate coating, particularly the heavier wall, larger diameter stuff ( 1.625 x .083 for example) and when bent it has a flakey surface like black pipe. Cleaning that surface **** off is essential to get a good weld.

Roo

 

both places i deal with charge the same price...or close
plus i get a little better deal sometimes

so im thinking its a true problem

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Damn It--We can't buy ANYTHING made in America anymore. Now the are putting our lives in danger with this ****, the lead in every thing, etc. What the hell happened?

 

I heard that the airline industry was having problems with guys replacing bolts with Chinese **** that supposedly met "spec" but actually didn't.....bad news. This info came from an airplane builder I know, he told me to watch out for any cheaper grade 8 stuff....it's not really grade 8 if it's from China.

 

Could buying something cheaper with no regard to where it's made have anything to do with it?

 

another item I have come across, I recently had the bolt bin restocked and had a couple different vendors quoting, Fastenal bolts are chinese **** and they hide it by saying they come from / calling it "Fastenal approved vendor".
I bought from Midwest as they have real test results and the hokus **** fastenal tried to convince me to buy was serious ****. Others have told me of chinese grade 8 bolts shearing because of poor quality and bogus test results.

 

I heard the same thing, except it was on a plane! Good Lord.

 

Thanks for mentioning this, Zach. The need to buy from a reputable vendor..and willingness to pay a fair price helps. The Fastenal issue mentioned above would be hard to "flush out" even following the practices mentioned.

 

I told you to use PB-Y wing struts as your source for Moly...
Two things: Read Carrol Smith's book on Nuts, bolts, and plumbing for advice on fasteners that can kill you (you may never want to get in an airplane again after you read about the counterfeit bolts game...)
AND look into aircraft suppliers...Smith lists some of the ones operating at a level suitable for small purchasers. For parts that can kill you, you need a careful source

 

it sounds were talking about harbour frieght just a different product, but the same story

 

ran into the grade 8 **** breaking too..went back to my supplier and he bought some of that chink ****..i told him if he wants to lose his vendor status with my shop that selling me this **** is a good start to ending up in my trash bin of **** suppliers..I made it clear to him that these bolts hold a mans life in balance and i dont want anymore cheap **** p***ed off as "real"

 

I only buy tubing and hardware from suppliers that can verify the source, and provide test results for critical stuff. There are still reputable US manufacturers and suppliers out there, you just have to take the time to find them (and probably pay a bit more).

 

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30263/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30263/1908/richmedia/bj_chinese_****.mp3?CCOMRRMID=5635963&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=CLEVELAND-OH&NG_FORMAT=acmix&NG_ID=wmvx106fm&OR_NEWSFORMAT=ac&OWNER=1908&SERVER_NAME=www.wmvx.com&SITE_ID=1908&STATION_ID=WMVX-FM&TRACK=brian_and_joe_chinese_****_song

 

try this link
for the song

 

The Chinese are already winning WW3, and the war hasnt even started yet!

Tim @ www.irrationalmetalworks.com

 

Another reason not to use Chrome Moly tubing.



And a reminder not to shop on price alone.

 

In my shop we use regular bolts to mock things up and then before the vehicle leaves we install NAS bolts. Expensive but military grade with traceable certification.
I have a nostalgia funny car in the shop right now and it is ***embled with Grade 8 bolts--all co**** thread and with the thread through the mounting areas. We call them "tractor bolts".
That is one of the reasons that we use the NAS stuff, the shank of the bolt fills the hole and there is just enough thread to put the nut on. Think about what happens if a fully threaded bolt gets even slightly loose, especially a co**** thread bolt which has less surface area per inch. If the mating components are allowed to move, the thread on the bolt will either machine a bigger hole or be worn away by the components. Not good either way.
The NAS bolts are expensive but for critical locations (suspension, steering etc) we won't use anything else. To save a $ the best alternative is to buy a longer bolt where the shank will bridge the parts, and cut off the excess thread.

Roo

 

Thanks for the heads up. I have purchased from Dillsburg Airplane Works in the past.

 

Zack, Where are you buyin' the good tubing? In a month or so I'll be gettin' some tubing for the coupe.
I'll see ya at the Jalopy Drags, Smokey

 

This really makes me mad. I've been noticing that the quality of even regular sheet steel or mild steel has been going down... now the good stuff is... It needs to stop...

 

Thanks for the info..

CC

 

I worked at a company a couple of years ago that purchased big coils of sheet metal primarily from a US supplier. Occ***ionally we would get stuff from China and India. Some of the Chinese material was pure junk. It would flake off and gum up our roll forming equipment in a matter of seconds! Usually to a point where we had to shut down to clean out all the rolls and dies. Somehow, it met the "spec" but it was obviously different than the US metal.

 

Dudes,wake up and help other people wake up to the HORSE**** China is selling us. America is under attack from China,they prey on the weak minded who only shop price! Please educate all your relations to the Horrors of made in China! Attempt to wake up the weak minded soccer moms and ***** waisted ***** whipped husbands of the aformentioned soccer moms to wake up and smell the coffee. It is truly time to reclaim our country and politically correct be DAMNED....yea I had a few tonight but after losing my job again I am pissed....thank you fellow hambers for letting me vent. trully yours Ron

 

The place I work we bought some refurb pumping units and they told us they replaced all the bolts. We had three of them crater and the root cause was the bolts holding it together. We inspected the rest of them and found cracked bolts. The company insists they were new bolts. However, even if they were new they are ****. I need to find out where they came from I guess.

If you have never seen a pumping unit crater it is a sight! some flip over and dig into the ground. some take off walking as they try to continue to pump. Some wrap themselves up like a pretzel.