alright so were getting ready to put the jag suspension under the 56 dodge(soon as i go pick up the jag clips,though i'm not sure if i'm gonnause the jag rear yet). now i need to decide what i intend to run drivetrain wise. i'm trying to get this thing on the road so low budget is kind of pushing some of my choices. in diggin around i found a coupla used 350's in various states from $350-1000. the best engine for the buck i've run across so far is a rebuilt 305 with a mild cam edelbrock intake/carb and headers for $450. i seem to get varying opinions on the 305. the guy thats doing the fab work for the clip says to avoid it but he also suggested getting a newer fuel injected 350. i'm wanting this thing to be a daily or semi-daily driver and decent mileage would be nice. he says a 350 will get better mileage than the 305. i know alot of mileage comes down to the whole she bang more than the engine in question. i'm stuck trans wise between a 700r4 or a t5. having the auto and overdrive would be nice but i got no beef with shifting my own gears and usually tend to find i can get better mileage in anything that has 3 pedals unless it's something that i had no care of mileage in when it was built. i haven't hit the scrappers yet because i'm still deciding on whether or not to use the jag rear or if i'm gonna look for something else. anyone got suggestions on rears and gearing using eithr of the above combo(s). i'm not looking to knock the door down mileage wise but getting somewhere near 20 would be great...ken....
I have a 305 700R4 in my S10. It's stock except for a gear drive, Holley intake, Holley 600 carb, & Mallory dual point dist. It even has stock exhaust manifolds. The rear gear is the factory 373. It runs great, it will light up the tires in 1st, 2nd, & 3rd. It runs @ 2200 on the hwy, and gets close to 25 mpg. with the air on. I would use another with out even thinking about it. Dean
Look in the tech archives. Fat Hack did a nice write up on the 305. I got one on the stand that's going in my 50 sedan. I think they are a decent motor, and under rated by many. Todd
Couldn't agree more. 305's get no respect! True they are no race motor but for a light to mid-weight driver they are great. Unless you get stupid with the cam and intake they'll run strong and get mileage in the 20's easy with a 200-4R and mid-3 something gears. Ever drive a fresh mid-80's Monte SS with the L69 305, 200-4R and 3.42 or 3.73 gears? Yeah there were faster cars but it was still a fun car. 305's REALLY respond to a mild cam upgrade and like dual pattern cams in the 110 LSA range. Keep the carb and headers on the small side. Check that 305, if it has 601 or 416 heads it should be a good one, those were used on 4 Bbl. motors like the L69 and the TPI motors IIRC and have 1.84 intake valves and flow very close to the old 461 Double Hump 327 heads, a little weaker on the exhaust side but run a dual pattern cam and you're good. When I first bought my Stude I was all set to build a 1 Pc. rear main 305 with the '395 Marine Roller Cam and Vortec heads for it until I found pics of some dressed out Stude V-8's and discoverd mine had a 289 not a 224 so the Stude mill stays BUT I will still build the 305 for something else one of these days. I have owned 4 total and I had nothing but good luck with every one. Now on the other hand in something heavy on the order of a full size PU then go for the 350, mileage will probably be about the same because the 350 won't have to work as hard.
I have the factory TBI 305 in my 89 Chevy Cheyenne (w/ 131K miles on it). Non-OD automatic, and I get high-teens for MPG. Around 20-21 MPG if it's all highway. Takes off pretty good for such a long chassis. If I found a decent deal on a 305, I'd definitely use it in a shorter car.
Since the Jag rear uses standard GM gear sets your choice of rear gears is very wide. Considering your comments about "low budget" it seems you are pulling at both ends of the wallet here. Make up your mind whther you want something unique (and believe me a 56 Dodge with Jag underpinnings will be that!) or cheap. Jag usually doen't mean cheap or low-budget in the end.
Nothing wrong with the small 305 sbc engine, I mean we use 283 and 327 engines all the time. The main thing is a bad reputation because it was considered a smogger engine and also the engine that came in plain base model cars (rather than the upgrade 350). It still is a semi bullet proof sbc. I wouldn't use it if you are planning to dump money in it to make a tremendous bunch of power. It simply makes more sense to dump money in something with more cubes, 4 bolt, etc, but for a healthy cruiser I would do it in a second (if you are really convinced it is rebuilt and ready to go).
you have apples and oranges here, whats it going to cost to put the jag in the dodge. there nothing cheap about that. from the amout of questions sounds like your kind of new to this. you will get as many answers as people you ask. 305,700r4 or 200r4 and a 3.73 stock type rear is the cheapest/fast way to your build.
Like any Chevy small block the 305 is a decent performer and responds well to typical internal and bolt on goodies. In a lightweight car it will shine. Like has been mentioned Fat Hack is building a HP/torque monster out of one. He's bringing all of his extensive research and experience to bear so it should be a barn burner. New technology is going to be the cornerstone on this one. It's going to incorporate different bores /strokes/rod lenghts, compression ratios, etc. all in the same engine. He's been looking for a block for a little over two years so he's not accepting run of the mill components for this one. I hope I haven't spoiled anything by talking about it but he did announce the concept right here on the HAMB some time ago.
my experience with 305s come from 2 very different cars, the first was a bone stock 88 Monte carlo ss that I bought new, The other was in a 86 Camaro built to race in the scca American Sedan class. In both cases when the engines were overheated the heads cracked. Trying to find a non cracked core to rebuild is tough, generally we would go through a dozen cores to find 2 to rebuild.Both engines made good torque and neither liked high rpm. The other A/sedan competitors all told me that the 305 would break the crank anything past 7500 rpm. If you dont spin the crap out of them and keep them cool the 305 is a good runner that will easily go 200k miles.
the only thing wrong with a 305 is the look on your buddys faces when you tell them what it is. got one in my 49 chevy. when people ask what the motor is I used to tell them a 305, but I have a 327 under the bench that will eventually go in there someday. well I sold the 327 so now I tell them it's a 305, and point out that I got it and the 700R4 trans for free from a wreck that I bought, pulled the motor and trans and sold the shell for what I paid for the complete car. I put a cam, chain, lifters, oil pump and gaskets in this one. that's about as far as I'd go... if it needed a rebuild I'd go with a 350.
another pro 305 opinion. I have one now in a 55 chev. Big tube headers, crane 278 cam edelbrock carb and intake(performer)M-22 Munice and 3:55 gears. Never been rebuilt , its a 1980 motor getting tired.It runs great, performs good for what it is and gets upper teens mpg.
got a 305/200r4 in my nova wagon . the only "upgrade" is a edelbrock 500 cfm carb. rams horn manifolds and duals . runs great and last i checked i averaged just shy of 20 mpg
new to this if 20+ years of building cars is new. it's funny someone asks an engine question they must be new. but no not new at all just never had ANYTHING at all with a 305. 327s, 350s 400s,454s yeah a plenty. and for the jag not fitting the budget build maybe i'm the one with more knowledge. the entire donor 84 xjs is costing a whopping $400. i can use the front and rear and part out a few of the more desired parts for a little cash and then scrap the rest for another few bucks and probably have $200 in the donor. if i sell the jag rear for the going rate for them i can probably actually be getting paid to put that jag front in. seems pretty low budget to me. the other option of a hook up with fatman was still gonna cost more to do even if i rebuild the entire front end and brakes for the jag stuff. jag stuff fully rebuilt i'd be in it for about $1200 tops but probably WAY less and the fatman mII set up was gonna run around $1500 or so. the plan would be to eventually build a 400 small block for it. a local guy has a good 400 but doesn't want to come off of it. oddly enough the only thing i think he'd part with it for is he wants the dodge and then that would kind of defeat the purpose hahahaha
well i had a 84 elco with a 305/350trans. ran good. made good power. the GF over heated it 3 or 4 times. all i ever did was drive the snot outa it. ok on gas. beat on it for 5 years the only reason i'm not still in some one hit me head on at 55 last Dec. i would run them any time. the crank and rods are the same as 350. can't go more than 1.94's with heads but done need them. every thing i have read said watch the timing on them. i never had any problems in my driver. i'm puting one in my 87 cutlass. had one for the 29. got a fresh 350 for allmost free. so... 305/ 700r4,2004R, or T-5 are all good ways to go. but if you go auto. Run a shift kit. it will make them last much longer. i have allwas run trans-go.
Reading this is making me feel a whole lot better about my recent purchase. I bought a 305 connected to a turbo 350 that had been rebuilt in 06 for $200 complete with carb, dist., everything. I am putting it in a 52 chevy and just planned on telling everyone I have a small block in there, I wasnt going to say anything about displacement. Wasnt my first choice but didnt think I could bet it for the price, as long as when I get in the car and hit the key and it starts and gets decent gas milage thats all I car about...
All things equal like carb, intake, headers etc on stock cam + internals, I'd take a 305 over a 283 or a 307 any day of the week. True, its not a nostalgic ,powerful motor or have great race potential, BUT it IS a snappy motor out of the box. It can take all the old speed stuff to look like a 283, if you have too have the look.
All over this post everyone hates the 305 or the 283 or the 307. The are all desent engines, just depends what you do to them, stock they are a little weak. Sure the 305 and the 307 arent the strongest blocks do to the low nickel in the steel, but slap in some flat tops a good cam and a set of 64 cc heads and you have a little motor that can. There was a year or two that the 307 had sidewalls that were thick enought to bore it to a safe 4 inches to produce a 327. And If you look the 327 was the the highest horse small block GM had up until the mid 80s or so cant remember the correct date.
I had a 305 in one of the Firebirds I used to have. Although it was hardly a powerhouse by any means, the engine just wouldn't die and kept running well over 200K miles. I sold the car at 211K and the girl that bought it drove it around for a few years after that.
The only thing that is more expensive on the Jag is the fact that you must use 4 coilovers. And if the Jag axle is woren out....well that's another story. But that can be a problem to any used rear axle of course. And if rear disc brakes are an important issue, the Jag axle will probably be cheaper than a traditional GM or Ford axle rebuilt with discs. "Fresh" from the wrecking yard: After some care: Mounted in the '34 chassis with home made stabilizing rods in polished stainless steel:
I have run a couple 305s First was in 64 chevy truck built for wife as daily driver She wanted to learn how to build an engine did a mild cam did the HP 305 heads milled .020 Stelth manifold with Carter to a 350 trans Would get 20MPG would pull roadster to show in AZ heat (Idiot Lights are Great) Show truck and roadster Second was Demolition Derby CAR Built as artical in Hot rod several years ago Then remove 4bbl and addapt 2bbl for torque 305 with block hugger headers facing up with 18" stacks On 115 gas shoot blue flame and move cars sideways 7year old derby motor They may not be most desirable small block but they can hang Ray
Jags are cool, but I often wonder how much thought actually goes into the mounting setups. To me... a person who has admittedly has NEVER worked on installing a Jag... the mounting of your center section looks fragile at best! That one flat crossmember is holding all vertical load from the springs, in addition to handling most of the torque load from the gears...with some help from those splayed forward links. IRS doesn't pass torque load thru the axle shafts into the bearing carriers...it's handled by the differential housing and its mounting! Those long rods at the wheel bearing carriers only handle thrust forces and road impacts. In addition...the Jag braking forces are also handled by the differential housing, as thats where the calipers are mounted. I see some serious load handling and stress in that crossmembers future. Myself...I'd spend another 8 hours or so on that setup creating a much stiffer main crossmember assembly and a forward mounted crossmember for the pinion area of that diff housing!!! Just my opinion...right or wrong...
While I'm not a big fan of the 305, it's actually got as much potential as any other SBC of similar displacement for a street engine operating within reasonable RPM ranges. For myself if I'm going to bother, I'd just as soon start with something larger, but that's just me. I have a 388 inch LT1 that makes 450 HP and gets 26 mpg hwy. But it's an electronic engine and you also don't wanna know how much it cost to get it there! But depending on your purposes and all other things being equal, the bore to stroke ratio actually makes the 305 a "mini-stroker" for an engine in that CID range. And this is not at all a bad thing, for a street engine particularly. (It shares a crank stroke with the 350 BTW) With a good set of heads and other well matched components, it'd perform extremely well, in the time-tested SBC tradition. Assuming the job was well done, $450 for a rebuilt anything is a steal. You couldn't buy the parts to do even a budget build for much less than that, let alone the machine work and other labor involved. And I'm afraid your fabber's comment is just dead wrong. Unless an engine is severely under powered for a given application, a smaller displacement engine will always have more fuel mileage potential. It's simple physics.
I have had two 305's, and can't complain about them one bit. If you want to get every HP out of a SBC, no - a roller 350 is a better bet. But if it's what you've got, and is a runner, it's a great little engine. And it will last forever. Besides, you can hit 300 hp w/o cracking the heads. There is a Hot Rod article on how to do it. Headers, Performer RPM, and comp XE262. The factory 305 cam's are really pathetic tho. That's why they have such a bad reputation.
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