New fraud law affecting Oklahoma (and really everyone)car owners..

Hi,

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of it..but there appears to be a new law which will take affect 11/01/2007 in Oklahoma, which will also impact people in other areas..It is mainly for 1953-1977 cars, but looks like it could have more far reaching implications...It is centered around fraud and the fraud in the car hobby..at least that is the intent of the law.

I'd like to get some feedback on this and also if anyone is an attorney, and can comment.

There have been some pretty spirited discussions on a couple of the "Team" websites..Team Camaro and Team Chevelle..

I'm not sure how to link it and I know this board is more for older cars..but it appears to me at least it could be applied to others...

 

Come back when you have some facts.

Provide the statute as a minimum, that way we know what the hell you're babbling about.

 

I saw a post on The Supercar Registry. Looks like this is going to interesting...

 

Perhaps a shred of information would prove to be a bit helpful.

 

cut and paste is a lot of work.

 

Sorry..

Here it is



Here it is, in its entirety:

An Act relating to motor vehicles; prohibiting certain acts relating to motor vehicle trim tag plates; providing exceptions; providing penalties; allowing defrauded persons to pursue civil action and recover certain damages; allowing court to award certain costs; defining terms; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA:
SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 4-107a of Title 47, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to:
1. Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle manufactured from 1953 to 1977;
2. Knowingly affix a counterfeit trim tag plate to a motor vehicle;
3. Manufacture, offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a counterfeit trim tag plate; or
4. Offer for sale, sell, introduce, import or deliver for sale or use in this state a trim tag plate that was affixed to a motor vehicle at the time of manufacture but has since been removed or become dislodged.
B. Paragraph 1 of subsection A of this section shall not apply to:
1. Any person who engages in repair of a motor vehicle, provided that removal of the vehicle's trim tag plate is reasonably necessary for repair of a part of the vehicle to which the trim tag plate is affixed, and provided that such trim tag plate is not intentionally destroyed, altered or defaced; or
2. Removal of a trim tag from a motor vehicle which is being junked or otherwise destroyed, if the removal is being done for historical documentation purposes by a person actively involved in judging events or for historical documentation of classic motor vehicles and reasonable precaution is taken to ensure that the tag is not sold or affixed to another motor vehicle.
C. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act a second or subsequent time shall be guilty of a felony.
D. In addition to any other civil remedy available, a person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may bring a civil action against any person who knowingly violated this act regardless of whether that person has been convicted of a violation of this act. A person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may recover treble their actual compensatory damages. In any action brought pursuant to this subsection, the court may award reasonable costs, including costs of expert witnesses, and attorney fees to the prevailing party.
E. As used in this section:
1. "Trim tag plate" means a plate or tag affixed to a motor vehicle by the manufacturer which displays numbers, symbols, or codes that identify characteristics of the vehicle including, but not limited to, date of manufacture, body style, paint color, engine option, transmission option, trim option, general option, interior option, and interior color;
2. "Counterfeit trim tag plate" means:
a. any trim tag plate manufactured by a person or entity other than the original manufacturer of a motor vehicle upon which the trim tag plate is designed to be affixed, unless the trim tag has been permanently stamped, in the same manner as other information on the trim tag, with the words "REPLACEMENT TAG" in letters measuring at least one-eighth (1/8) of an inch in height, or
b. any trim tag plate which has been altered from its original manufactured condition so as to change any of its numbers, symbols, or codes; and
3. "Motor vehicle" means the same as defined in Section 1-134 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2007.
Passed the Senate the 26th day of April, 2007.

 

If you aren't messing with the trim tag then you don't have anything to worry about. Get you car legal the...well, legal way, and move on.

 

I guess I'm more concerned since this appears to be the first law of its' kind in the nation..what's to stop similar law from being enacted which goes after other areas of a car..It is about trim tags, but couldn't this be expanded to other items

 

this would affect the muslecar guys much more than hambers....looks like the law is all about people making plain jane cars appear to be specially optioned cars (by changing or replacing the trim tag) and then selling them for way more than they're worth. In other words, the law is designed to punish those who commit fraud.

I guess it was inevitable...and I think it's a reasonable law.

 

Whew! I'm glad it's just trim tag law and not vin tag law...

 

Interesting, especially in the sector of the automotive hobby in which probably 200% of the Camaros and '55 Chevies with the most desireable options have survived...

I remember reading a "restoration" article in a Chevy magazine in which a tri-5 expert wished to build an aodd and interesting combination 1956 Chevy.
The process: Gather lots of neat and rare engine and trim detail parts.
Purchase a rolling '56 with the right body.
Combine all ingredients, with much attention to factory procedure.
Purchase trim tag neatly filled out to match from a resto firm specializing in such.
Presto! a Perfectly authentic rare car that rolled out of the factory as something very different and much more common!
Neat car, with its alterations and slightly dubious provenance clearly spelled out in a public venue. But where is it now?? It is probably two owners down the road, and believed to be a completely original car.
How many of the original Z-28's have survived?? I'm sure it is WAY more than all of them!

 

Sounds like an attempt to stop all the phony GTO and SS clones from being passed off as genuine.

 

Oh your not allowed to switch out the cars build information with another's?!?!?!

SOUNDS INSANE!!


Seems like the only people affected are the ones trying to either

Make a lesser car more valuable

Get a hulk of a car legal through the VIN plate

Make a car less of a "performance car" for insurance reasons

All of witch should be illeagal. get over it

 

interesting, definately puts a kybosh on those guys "restoring" 440 'cudas and SS chevettes.

 

not that we need any more laws
but this one seems to be looking out for the buyer

 

I haven't read the whole thread, I'm guessing here, but it has something to do with "flipping cars" not putting titles in your name and not declaring the sale to the IRS as declared income?.....

 

Some legislator put his investment money into a "matching numbers" tri-carb Stingray, and then discovered the numbers actually matched a JC Whitney stamp set...tragic.

 

squirrel,

I think you have it right..................

Cruiser

 

I think it more about guys creating "SS" cars and such vs. not declring income.

My questions with it, and one of the reasons I wanted to know if anyone is an attorney are

Does it directly cover fraud or is the actual act of covering your trim tag for instance, with no intent to committ fraud the criminal act?

What is to stop someone in OK from buying cars off Ebay after 11/01/2007, which they know has reproduction trim tags and then claiming they were duped..notice the possible civil damages..3 times the amount..


Also how does it address this type of situation:

A guy knows this law is in place and builds a car with a "smooth" firewall or covers the cowl tag with sheetmetal for a "pro-street" look..He then sells the car to someone in OK who either doesn't know the law or does..There is no "intent" to defraud anyone at the time of sale..The guy buys the car and then realizes he can sue..based on "fraud"..It appears to me all he has to show to be awarded 3 times (treble) the amount..plus fees..is that he wouldn't have bought the car..ie..he thought it was originally red..and the tag says green...

I am wondering because of the wording of the law if this doesn't add to the problem even though the "intent" was good..

 

I think it sounds like a well-written law, to stop all the con artists who pass off clones as original. I did notice that a reproduction tag can be affixed as long as it says "replacement tag." I'm all for this law. It will protect those who own authentic cars and keep the value of authentic cars up, while sending the value of clones to a level more representative of where they should be.

 

There was a guy in Lubbock making "custom" firerwall tags some years ago. The Feds shut him down, I heard.

 

So you're saying my '29 Model A Sedan GT isn't a real GT?

At least my 97 Saturn is a real SS!

seriously, I agree with Squirrel. I'm surprised this law hasnt happened already.

 

if you outlaw reproduction trim tags, only outlaws will reproduce trim tags...

 

"Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle manufactured from 1953 to 1977"

Hmmm...what car was introduced in 1953?

 

Glad I'm safe. The trim tag on my 1951 Henry J decodes out to primer finish color, 500inch blown caddy, 5 speed and the super rare for '51, 1957 Olds rear. Oh and a radio delete...

 

Corvette...lol

I think the part that bothers me is it doesn't appear based on the actual wording of the law..not what hobbist "read" into it or what we "think" it means or is supposed to stop..

It appears you can committ a crime and then be sued in a civil court and pay 3 times the amount (35k for a car..award 105k..plus any attorney fes,etc)..all while not having ANY INTENT to committ a crime or gain ANYTHING monetarily.....just have a knowledge of this law (and can being a member of a website in which this was posted..no matter if you read it or not..count).

So the guy who knows the law..covers his tag while making a pro-street car..sells it and looses money on it could then be sued and pay 3 times the sales price?? Simpy because he covered a tag and had no intent to defraud someone for gain..And based on what I'm reading..all the new owner has to say is he was "defrauded." Is that right??

I'm just reading the law as it is written..

 

are u the guy from that movie......what was the name oh yea Conspiracy theory.....dude your reaching

 

All this does is codify what already exists in business law, contract law, current fraud and motor vehicle statutes.
A smart DA can already get you for the same things - just citing a different law.

Not to worry.

 

Surprise, surprise, surprise!
There are already and have been for decades "VIN tag laws". It is illegal to remove, modify, replace, or reproduce factory VIN tags on any automotive vehicle. This is, I believe, a Federal law, which is replicated in every state by a similar statute. The crime becomes Federal when state lines are crossed.
20 or more years ago some dude reproduced the VIN tags for a series of Corvettes, he lost everything including his freedom for some time, a long visit with Uncle Sam, 3 squares a day, and lights out at 10PM.

 

I'm just asking as I can see with the amount of money which could be involved.