just wondering, how much power could you get from a 221ci flatty if you put 2 97s on it, lake headers, ebrock heads, ported, pop ups, relieved, and bored it out 3/16". i wish to build a FAST lake style rod with a model a coupe body and a 32 frame. i imagine these are pretty light cars so you dont need 500 hundred horse power, but will a flathead v8 knock the socks of a rice burner? i also desire building a flathead because of simplicity, and because their relatively cheap to build. also other suggestions for engines would be great... as long as they'er fords . i.e 390ci, 360ci, 302ci, or maybe 460ci,
Flatheads really aren't that cheap to build - you should be able to do a 302 for less than half the cost. Sure the flattie may be more era specific, and God knows its a lot better looking, but price vs power kinda kills it for me.
the big thing that scared me off was the price for aluminum heads on an over head valve engine, i know 390s and and other fords of that era are dirt cheap. they all probably need new bearings but what the heck.
http://www.cl***icroad.com/modelA/hotrod/index.htm this is basically what i want to build, just a little simpler. the nailhead in this one seems like it would be a bit sluggish. being that he just put an offy intake and new carbs on it. he cromed the **** out of it.
If you really want a flathead, I would suggest a later 239 inch 8BA engine. They have insert bearings, are easier to find, and cheaper to build. I would skip the edelbrock heads, and run the stock heads milled down a little, and have it releived and ported. I would run a aftermarket distributor, and a dual carb intake with two Ford/holley 94's, because they are cheaper to get a hold of. I would run a Isky max 1 cam, with speedways stainless valves. and then run the lakester exhaust like you said. For the transmission, I would look at a T-5 out of a '87-93 S-10 chevy pickup, because they have an overdrive, and are easy to get a hold of. Radiator, use a '67 ford mustang with the two additional needed water necks added by your local radiator shop. As cool as banjo and quick change rears are, they can get to be expensive, so I would run a newer rear end. For the front suspension, a little later style ford axle with the spring behind mounted to the wishbones, or bat wings, so it has the right stance. This is just a list of things that came to mind for a cheaper build. I hope this helps you some. Jordan
I have to also add that if you are looking for inexpensive speed you'll have to look past the flathead. The Flathead with some hop up items will more that get your project rolling. It will look cool too. If your looking for a cool mill , flatheads are hard to beat. Fast and cheap they are not.
As you live in Fallbrook , go over to Dode Martin (Dragmaster) and ask him He knows how to build a Flathead Michael
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Flatheads are not cheap to build under any conditions! Just to find a good block to start with can be quite an ordeal and the parts are high as a cat's back, but I chose one 'cause the cool factor is way out there! </TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
So what makes the flathead so much more expensive? I know the engine itself is relativly cheap. i have a friend that might beable to supply me with one at a good price. dual carb intake is like $250 and carbs are pretty dirt cheap if u buy them used. a cam might be pretty spendy, i can mill the heads my self, valves are cheap, and ive got a friend that will put a good grind on them. how much would you bore a flathead? like to a 255ci or larger. and what about the big flatheads like the 337ci? how would you build say a ford 390?
if you must go ford and want to go fast id just go with a small block. you can really crank out some power without spending a big chunk. i keep kicking the ball around about the flathead ford but they really do seem to be more expensive. hell even if it cost the same to build as an ohv it will probably make about 3/4 of the power. you can get 300hp out of a smallblock ford like nothing, what will it take to do that with a flathead?
That's a 425 nailhead and believe me it ain't sluggish. If you want to go as fast as a rice burner you should buy a rice burner.
I do believe Mr. Tuck had a rather nice tagline... nowadays You don't build a flathead to be the fastest out there you build it to have the coolest sounding most *****n'est motor. It is what it is----- not what it isn't. And what they are are a seriously cool looking and sounding *****in motor. 221cu. incher with those mods and no internal stuff done to it ...140 horse realistically. Good amount of torque though. Jerome
To make a hot rod motor from a 21 stud flathead is really impractical because they are hard to find aftermarket parts for and they will not stand up to much HP abuse. If you want to build a flathead then try the 46/48 or 49/53 24 stud. So, you want to beat a "rice burner", OK, then build a 1500 lb car with a pretty stout flathead, good cam, good pistions, HC heads with at least 9to1, long tube headers, some really good aluminum heads, at least a tripower setup with MSD ignition, good trans and rearend. If you can make 220HP at the crank and a minimum of 170HP at the rear wheels you.............may have a chance at a 12 sec car.....................if you can plant it firmly to the ground without spining the tires. What makes a flathead so expensive are the parts if you want to get more than 220HP at the crank. It was mentioned how cheap flathead stuff is to buy. That statement is only correct if you only want to make 150HP at the crank................if you want that and more at the rear wheels, used parts that are mostly worn out will not get you there. Building a flathead for HP is expensive, something like $35 per HP for a 300HP motor. Here is somewhat complete list of parts, Good block, mag'd & pressure tested min of $500 Good crank with 4-1/8 Stroke after machine work min $700 Hbeam rods $500 Forged pistons w/80gram pins $600 Cam/lifters/springs $500 Machine work to the motor including balance & clearance, line boring, boring decking etc $1000 Steel main caps $300 Really nice heads with work done to combustion chambers $1200 Ignition min $300 more like $600 if you use a blower Blower $3000 Oiling system mods $200 Studs top and bottom $300 And misc gaskets, etc..................................$250 Granted, if you do some of the work yourself like ***embling it, deburring the block, valley, crank area, doing the oil mods yourself, porting, polishing, relieving.............you can reduce the cost. But this is what it takes to make a HP flathead.................no BS. Yes, if you only want to make 150hp at the crank you can build one with used parts and spend $2/3k and can get away with less than $20 per HP. So to bring this back into perspective, if you have a 2400 Model A Coupe and want to run 12 sec ET's, you will need 275HP at the rear wheels and 330HP at the crank..................again, ***uming you can hook up the ch***is to utilize the HP. So, if you want to run with the "rice eaters", I would go down and by a SBF 347 crate motor, or build one yourself..................taking that same 2400 A coupe you will be able to run 11's with 428HP at the crank and around 360HP at the rear wheels. IMHO
i roll with the flathead because its an awesome engine,sure i am not cranking out 350 hp,but i dont give a ****,iam not in it for going fast i drive a kustom shoebox,i dont want to wrap it around a pole or race hondas on city streets,the flathead is the original hot rod engine,its the vintageness of such an historic engine,that draws me to it,the appeal,and i am speaking for myself,is the authentic feel of a kustom from that time when flatheads were king,the ability to show people,young and old that an engine that stopped production in 53 can still look and sound awesome,and that it still can send a shiver own your spine when you see a fully dressed one,thats my 2 cents
Son, welcome to the wonderful world of FLAT HEADS! The 337 c.i. flat head engine is a MONSTER! It weighs around 850 pounds, it's almost impossible to find parts - and that includes SPEED PARTS - is getting harder to find (in usable condition) and ... well I could go on and on; but can I suggest you "truck on down" to your local book store and stock up on a couple of books on flat heads. Do a search on Amazon books - "Flat head" - and you will find a whole pile of GOOD material. Don't get discouraged, there are LOT of people here on the HAMB that are flat head "LOVERS!!" That includes ME too!
Building a seriously fast flathead is a noble idea. Cheap it is not. Check out McNicholl's book on how to build a flathead ford. He details three flathead builds, as well as approximate cost. If you want cheap Ford HP, go with a 460. In stock form they are slugs, but for half the price of a 200 HP Flathead you can build a 500 HP 460, on stock reworked heads. The BBF won't weigh much more than the Flathead either. Find a C-4 trans, have it rebuilt to handle the power (they can handle 800 HP when properly built), find an early 70's BB van bellhousing, and mate the trans to the 460. The C-4 gains 50 HP to the rear wheels vs. a C-6, plus they weigh less and are less ugly than the C-6. Plus, Big Blocks are *****in. I love em both; I have a 460 in my truck, a 429 for future use, and two 8ba flatheads. One for a shoebox project I am in the middle of, and a spare. They are not cheap. Good luck!
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