OK.. I have replaced: coil dist cap rotor points (and I think I adjusted them correctly) Condensor. I am getting spark to the plugs. I am getting fuel to the plugs. The car turns over strong. It starts to cough and spit and sometimes a little flame will backfire out of the carb. She STILL won't start. Suggestions?
Do a compression check. I had exactly the same problem, did a compression check and it came back with 35 psi in 4 cylinders...pulled motor and had it rebuilt. Rings had become welded onto the pistons. No compression means fuel won't fire.
Ok..this may sound silly..but I have experience with this. Have you pulled your valve covers? Is this a 331 hemi or a caddy mill? Either way, pull the covers and make sure that all of your valves are actually going down. What can happen if the engine has sat for a while, even if its a good engine, the valves will stick in the head. Then you turn it over, and bend the push rods, and crush lifters. The engine will turn nice and fast, and pop occasionally, but not start. If you find that you have some bent rods and crushed lifters, you're going to at least have to pull the intake and fish out the bits..then soak the head in PB Blaster..and tap the valves till they break free. Put in your new parts..and fire away. You will want to make sure you get all the bits out...a magnetic tool is pretty good for this. Tim MBL
Ugh.... As much as I hope you are wrong, I am afraid that you might be right. It is a caddy engine and it has not run since 1975. What are the chances that the falves are just stuck and not bent all to hell? If I gotta pull the engine apart, I might as well swap in a 472 that I can get for free. I figure rebuilding the 331 will cost about as much (about 500 bucks) as the conversion kit for the 472. (sigh)
A friend rebuilt a 331 Caddie 12 years ago and it cost a LOT MORE than $500! His total for a running but smoking and down on power engine was $2100. You might want to look at the swap kit if you have a 472 that doesn't need rebuilt
Just pull the covers...it will be evident right away. No need to rebuild yet. All you will likely need is some pushrods and new lifters...The weakest points will break first. The rods will typically bend enough so that the rocker arm itself will not break. The valves are also stronger than the pushrods and lifters. They will probably be fine. If they're not, a compression check will tell you if any parts came off the valves. You will need to pull the intake to fish out the rods and lifter bits...For the lifters..while you're in there, just replace all the lifters..if they are cheap enough. Find some pushrods and you'll be good. It'll take a few hours..but way cheaper than a rebuild! I have been at this point with several engines, and everyone has run like a champ afterwards. Just soak the valves with penetrating fluid and lightly tap with the rubber mallet. You will hear when the valve starts to open, cause you will hear tapping back against the head. Revisit the stuck valves after a few days....tapping them and adding more penetrating fluid. Make sure all the valves are free before reassembling. It will all work out. I think. Tim MBL
This ought to be a crime in my book. Anything that sits long is not ready to just crank. Why not just pour gasoline on it and set it on fire? Lazy does not equal "Hot Rodder"
Thanks for the input. Before I even attempted to start it, I pored Marvloes Mystery oil down each plug hole. After a week if soaking, I then flooded each hole with PB blaster and let that sit for another two weeks. While that was going on, I cleaned out the fuel tank and rebuilt the starter. Finally, after three weeks of soaking in oil, I slowly rocked the engine back and forth using a wrench. Once if spun with little resistance, I put the starter back on and, for the first time, spun it under power. This is my first time with something this old so, give me a break.
South, Don't worry about it too much. Sounds like yer givin it a shot and that's a lot more than some of these guys on this forum do. The car wasn't "parked" in '75 with the engine in tip top shape I am sure. Yeah, ya hear it all the time "Ran great when it was parked." Bullshit! Then why didn't you ever drive it after that??? Try pullin the valve covers and seeing what yer dealin with. That 331 won't exactly be cheap to rebuild but I'm sure there is someone out there right now wishin they could find some of those parts. Get the 472 and install it. If you don't sell the 331 or part it out, same yer pennies for a rebuild WHILE you are drivin it with the 472.
Nail, Thanks for the kind words. As far as the engine, it actually DID run when it was parked. The guy bought it brand new in 1949 and drove it back and forth between Florida and new York. One day back in 1975, he backed it into his garage just like he always did, he went inside, and died in his bed. It was a detached garage so the wife did one of these "I will sell it one day" things. Well, in March of this year, the wife died and the daughter decided to sell everything including the car. The interior is PERFECT. When I pulled the rad out, the water, while rusty, did not appear to be milky. The oil, while nasty, did not appear to have any water in it.
If it turns over, has spark and fuel, t should run. When it's cranking, does it turn over funny, or nice and smooth? I have had several engines that have sat longer than the 70's run extremly well for me. Check the valves, check the timing. One of those is the problem. Oh, and the coment on why is he trying to start it? Why not? The engine s free and it has fuel/spark.... I'd be drivin it around the block by now
Thanks... So do I. I am having a really hard time because I have never delt with things like points and things like this. My last rebuild was an LS1 out of a 2001 Trans Am. Before that was a 350 with TPI. Old school stuff is still very "new" to me.
Wait, wait wait... don't jump to a bent valve or broken valve component yet. If you are getting fuel to all the plugs, the top end is probably working alright. Keep playing with your timing and fuel, just because you have spark, doesn't mean it's at the right time, and just because you have fuel doesn't mean it's the right amount.
Well, when it had no spark, it was just a "wurp wurp wurp wurp." Now with spark, it is a "wurp wurp wurp worpwurp wurp wurp worpworp cough wurp wurp 'pop' (from the carb) wurp wurp" Valves sound like the most logical thing at this point. The timing SHOULD be fine. I am also thinking that maybe something is stuck open in the carb and it is flooding very quickly?
Oh yeah, don't forget to keep an eye on the plugs... whether the correct heat range or not, you could be fouling them out pretty easy with all the cranking.
What would cause that? I am 100% sure I did the dist cap correctly and when I pulled the plugs, I was very careful not to cross anything over.....
so you wern't there to see the guy back it into the garage then, could be there was some little thing wrong when he parked it like the timing had jumped?, maybe, even if it had a few stuck valves it should still run, i had a mustang that sat for over a year and when i tried to start it it just poped and farted, after an hour of screwing around it ran at 1/2 throtle, walked around behind the car to take a leak and saw a pile of 1/2 burnt oak nuts next to the exhaust. you just never know.
HAve you actually checked at the plug to make sure they are firing? Old plugs? If you loaded it with MM AND PB you may have it flooded too. You're doing the right things, sounds like a neat car.
Well, the plugs firing consisted my me pulling a few plugs out and observing the spark while someone else turned the engine over. When I first turned the engine over, I did it without the plugs in it to try to blow out whatever oil and stuff was in there. The plugs do look good. On Thursday I will take a vid of my starting attempts and I will (as always) welcome any feedback.
pull the plugs all the plugs and make sure that the plug gap is there and not closed up due to incorrect plugs and that they're NOT fouled with fuel or oil..sounds too simple but you'd be surprised how many times i've had that scenario come into my shop.
pull all the plugs, stick your finger over each plug hole, kick over the starter and feel for the intake, exhaust and compression strokes. maybe lobuck way to "check" valvetrain without yanking the valve covers...I'm feeling a timing/spark issue here.
We had a problem getting the lifters to pump up with a Pontiac that sat for a long time. The valves weren't stuck. The valves were not opening because the lifters had collapsed. We finally got it to run on a few cylinders. We added Rislone to the oil and drove it a few miles coughing and sputtering. After a few miles it warmed up and the lifters pumped up and it purred like a kitten again. If you turn it over and the rockers aren't rocking you could have some gummed up lifters. I wouldn't panic just yet. I never believed in "a mechanic in a can" but the Rislone did wonders for the gummed up lifters on an engine that sat for several years.
How could my timing have gone "out of wacK" by just sitting? Also, is it possible that the carb is stuck and simply flooding the engine?
Me either, but my dad convinced me to run a couple quarts of kerosene through a motor that was all gunked up... did wonders to clear it up.
The Jalopy Journal
