351 Cleveland? Good under hood? Better under water?

My first hot rod was a 56 Mercury Pickup (from Canada) with a 351C from a 71 Cyclone GT. I put in the engine bone stock with 22,000 original miles and just added long tube headers and a T-10 four speed. The truck would go like a raped ape and was most fun to drive on the highway. I thrashed it for 72,000 miles - broke the trans twice but never the engine. With the 4-speed, the rumored poor bottom end of the 4bbl heads was non-existent. Just launch 'er at 3000 and hang on. The engine did have the quirks mentioned above, however - slippage on the balancer and wearing out a timing chain every 30,000 miles.

Many times I have wished I'd kept that engine for another project. Oh well!

You will have a blast with your Cleveland! Good luck!

 

I love rev happy Clevelands! I'm thinking of putting a Aussie 2V motor I built in a '63 Falcon Gasser. The only bummer is I can't seem to find fenderwell Cleveland headers. I guess I'll have to make some up!

 

a real close friend of mine has a cleveland motor in his '70 ford full size. it runs low 6's on one stage. we're hoping to get some high fives out of it next summer with the second kit.

yea, you can make em scream.

 

Every 351 C I've wrecked out of an old Falcon/Ltd (about 10 of em)had an FMX in Australia..................that's all I know

 

1/8 mile???????

I had a few mates in the 90s driving REAL 10 second aspirated XY GT Falcons as street cars....with no rear seat belts and lifting the front tyres from the lights

 

and NO....NOT with FMXs

 

have you trial fitted the motor in the bay yet?????
I didnt think they fitted

.....and why does everyone in the states talk about hand made headers like its a BAD THING???????

 

lol, yes. 1/8 mile

 

I had a 351 Cleveland 4bbl in my 71 Pantera. Like I have said before, that was the fastest car I ever owned. I loved that engine, had no complaints, and I even thought it was a good looking engine. Keep it.

 

I'll have plenty of room once I cut out the strut towers (going with a straight axle). I'm planning on setting the motor back a bit, and mounting bucket seats about half way to the back seats. (I'm going to try to keep it kinda street legal). I don't really have that big of a problem building headers, they just don't look as good as pro done ones.

 

hence the tag "overkillPhil"

nice work!

 

Oh and the rest of the package will most likely end up as a C6 with a 3500 stall converter, and a 9inch with 456 gears and a spool

 

C4's came behind 351's as well. I have a 351 and C4 out of a 71 Fairlane in my garage. The 302C and C4 in the pix is out of a mid 80's LTD. And that pretty well covers the beginning and end of Clevelands in Australia, both with C4's. The F100's built here had Clevelands too, but that's another story.

 

It hasn't been mentioned here ,but the Australian blocks are superior to the USA items and are known in the USA as "Mexican " blocks. Ford Australia went to great lengths to cast special thin wall blocks which are known to be lighter and stronger and popular with pantera (etc ) enthusiasts.
It is true that you don't get useable torque with the 4V heads ( marked with a #4 on the casting) but simple "tongues" to lift the port bottoms are available in Australia and have to be the simplest, most effective mod you can make to a Clevo.
The previously mentioned Funnel Web manifolds have to be the best intake for al round performance and make the edelbrock manifolds look like the 'adapted' chev items they are.
If you want Aussie Clevo gear in the USA it's readily available from Lawrence at http://www.austousa.com/
A former Brissy boy, living in Oregon,he is real expert on Clevo's and can fill you in on anything you need to know. Anyone who Ships his Falcon to the USA to use as Holiday transport has to be a real clevo fanatic...right?

 

Im with YOU oin that one man, my pet hate in seeing a "hand grenade" in a trad ride.. In a GT Falconn they look "right", outside of that....they look shit in an open hot rod.

Heaps of street rodders here in Oz use em and yeah, while they can go real hard, they just look likr shit in an early hot rod.

So much so that some clowns down here use em and fit em with fake Hemi valve covers.....nuff said.

Rat

 

I have a 73 ford gran torino sport, sportroof with a 351C and fmx trans. It has alot of wear and and the car had really been abused. when i got it the trans was torn up so I put another FMX in it. The trans. fluid looked like silver paint. The engine has some rattle but is still a strong runner.

 

That's because we don't call Aussie blocks Mexican blocks.

The Mexican 302 blocks say "Hecho en Mexico" on them - which translates to "Made in Mexico" (if your spanish isn't up to par) - those are the blocks we call "Mexican" blocks.

Now I don't know if you guys used Mexican blocks or not down under (it would seem unlikely), but if you do, it will have the "Hecho en Mexico" near the casting numbers by the starter...

What I would find likely is that you guys got all the updates to the casting & metallurgy that the Mexican blocks got making the Aussie blocks just as strong.

 

You are right Flat Ernie and no, we didn't use Mexican blocks.

 

Just because Ford is an American company doesn't naturally mean that the parent company made ALL the good gear.X38 is probably a little young to realise the Ford Australia's foundry was a totally independent operation which ,as I said,developed the casting techniques in very crappy conditions which were adopted by the American Company,Not the other way around.
As an example,the Ford Six,in the USA they struggled along with a 1950's design,while Ford Australia used the Clevo's combuston chamber on a widened block ,starting with a cast iron cross flow design which was developed into todays alloy inline,the turbo version of which will eat a contemporary V8.
The give you an idea how good these old things can be made to run here...This is Steve( Animal) Charltons Ford XA Falcon,Stock body,Stock suspension ,full interior,351 Clevo...162.393 Mph on the salt.single carb ........

 

if its a 2bbl, i doubt its a 351, might be a 302.

Dont forget, Aus had the fastest street car in early 70's with a 4v 351 clevo. I know of plenty kicking around now in the 700hp range, and still daily drivers (just). The 400 clevo and the 351 are totally different blocks and cranks. the 302 and the 351 is the same block, different crank, thats all. Same bore size of 4 inch.
Clevos kill whingers, err i mean windsors in every single fashion you can think of. If it were me, I would have a 4V, no question.
Put a flat top piston, a large motorsport cam, decent manifold and carb, and smile while smoking almost any sbc of similar build stats.

 

If you find an Edelbrock "Streetmaster" 4bbl intake on the used market - and that's where they will be since they don't make them anymore - be sure and check the exhaust crossover for leaks or for being very thin on the bottom side.

An Edelbrock rep told me they were cast overly thin in that area.

It's a good intake for the street and a damaged crossover gives you some whining (known as bargaining in some places) room.

It's an easy fix and the easiest is probably blocking off the head crossover port and the intake manifold crossover port with a chunk of aluminum and some JB Weld.

Provided you can live with an unheated intake manifold.
Most times not a problem, just takes a little longer warm-up period.

The Streetmaster's a good intake as far as street performance goes and with it's fairly low profile not a problem under the hoods of most cars.

 

Most AU blocks don't seem to be anything special. Some known as pillow blocks have bulges on the sides of the block for extra coolant, & there was some late blocks known as NASCAR blocks. Originaly made for use in racing they were supposed to have real thick cylendar walls, but the Aussies had problems with core shift. Useable for street cars, but not for NASCAR use.

 

K so here is my issue. I was realllly tempted to pull it in favor of a stocker 2 bbl 302. ONLY because the fit is much nicer. I was watching a rear sump pan for a Clev motor on ebay, thing went to over $200!! Is this normal? The pan has VERY little clearance (remember its a 51 Merc, front xmember car) but it does clear and while nothing "really" hits or causes a problem, I can see oil changes are going to be a pain and it still doesnt "look" neat under there.

Anyone know of a source for the rear sump pan thats not a million dollars? Anyoen have one they would part with?

Im 99% sure Im going to keep the motor, in fact might be given a car that needs a motor and would be in need of the dual sump 302 I have so that could make my mind up.

Lastly, now since it is a 74 Cleveland, and it looks like everything came from the donor car, what gearing can I expect in the 9" out back? I havent the space at the moment to check. Im assuming Torino or the such. Some of you seem to have owned similar cars.

 

2.75 is most likely, could be 3.00,

 

http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/v8gallery.html

Interesting stuff here too....

 

The 351C, 351M, & 400 all use the same oil pan flange, so look for a late '70s Ford truck/Bronco pan with a rear sump. Some vans of more or less the same years will have 351Ms with more of a "mid" sump that may or may not work for you. They can be found fairly often on eBay.

Grab the pickup and the special main cap bolt/nut that holds the support strap; also grab the pump. You'll need it to match the new pump, because the pump outlet may be in a different place than the front sumps (like the BBF pumps); I don't recall offhand.

Don't just stick the pickup strap under the std. main cap bolt......it WILL cause problems. Use the right bolt.

 

351M/400 pans for 78-79 4x4 truck, and 80-86 all truck will work for a rear sump C. I was able to buy a new pan and pickup from the dealer when I put a 351C in my 74 bronco about 10 years ago. Most likely discontinued now. I've seen just the pan for $25 at swap meets recently.

 

FWIW.....per VIN codes, the last year for the 400 in trucks was '82, & for the 351M it was '81. Some sources say '81 & '80 respectively. At any rate from '83 on, so far as I'm aware, the 300, 302, 351W, 460, & the 6.9 diesel were the only offerings in light trucks for the next several years. Might help narrow the search a bit.

Also, it uses the same pump as the passenger cars.

 

Trans wise, in Australia the 351C was backed up by FMX, C4, C10, C6 (in F trucks). With much variation between models and trim levels.

I have had at least half a dozen 351C and a few 302C and loved every one of them (sometimes to death). Any Aussie, even many sworn GM fans, will tell you the sound of a GTHO Falcon at full tilt is magnificent. Unless of course it was a police interceptor on your tail, in which case it wasn't so good. And everyone loves Mad Max's 351C V8 interceptor. Though in reality, Aussie police have used forced induction and nitro, all the interceptors were 4 doors.
302 closed chamber heads are the way to go for a street motor.
I think head work has already been discussed so ill skip straight to the next couple of tips.
First is you can use the 302C rods on a 351C crank with a change in pistons which will give you a 358 and an improved torque curve.
Second is that a stroker kit (say 378 or 383) will get those intake ports moving.
4 bolt mains are a worth while addition.
A 4v manifold "will" bolt on to 2V heads, some say the port miss match improves turbulence, I haven't tried it.
Negatives are few, though splitting cylinder walls is often the first place they go, this usually requires some effort to achieve, so don't get too worried. A 60thou over bore isn't uncommon but not real great either. Having to un seize a dizzy from the block is common. They generally wont out rev a Windsor but are probably more reliable. All said and done, a forgiving torque motor that really are alot of fun.