last night aggrivation....Chevy 292/TH350

ok,....i know we all get to that point when something doesn't fit the way you hoped and you just can't figure it out, its annoying as hell.
i've beat my head, layed under the car smoking and staring....and i just can't get it.

here's the skinny...

my '53 chevy sedan (stock front suspension)
Chevy 292 inline w/ a TH350.
Walton Fab crossmember and Tom Langdon's motor mounts.

with the motor set where it needs, which basically puts the head ON the firewall (and still barley leaves room for fan/radiator clearance)
and the TH350 bolted up it puts the trans mount to far past the crossmember (towards the rear of car).

the part that's killing me is the crossmember is made to bolt in the stock location and i'm trying to keep it that way so i don't have to molest the semi-pricey crossmember. AND the width of the crossmember is made to fit in that ONE spot....moving the crossmember back doesn't work as the frame widens towards the center of the car.

BUT, with the crossmember set in stock location the flange on the tailshaft wants to be either dead-on in the middle of the arch of the crossmember or past it (towards the rear of car).

The only thing i can come up with is that aftermarket stuff like that is usually made with a SBC in mind. and a SBC is WAY shorter than my inline...so i'm thinking that the length of the inline is pushing to trans mount back too far....?
does that add up and make sense to any of you chevy guys?

my next step is to see if i can move the engine foward a bit and just place with placement....or start over with a different crossmember.

anyone have any ideas, suggestions, horrible things to say?

thanks.

Chris

 

The only thing I can think to do is to bolt in the crossmember, take some measurements and then move the core support forward to make room for that engine. But that is a lot of work. There has to be an easier way.

 

that's what i keep thinking...."there's got to be an easier way..."
but i keep coming up empty handed.

i may be able to cut a little out of the motor mounts and possibly get the engine forward an 1" or so, but i still don't know if that's enough.
i guess i'll be spending a lot of time with a tape measure...haha.

thanks.

 

I second that. The easiest way is to move the radiator towards the front of the car to clear.
r

 

You're right about the crossmember being made for a SBC. I think you using the inline throws all the "bolt-in" application out the window. I used a "bolt in" crossmember made for a TH350, but cut it and rewelded the trans mount further back to accomodate a T56.

 

yea, i was looking at that. moving that wouldn't be too bad....i'm just really not looking forward to having to move the motor mounts....oh well....i guess that the name of the game.
thanks.

 

yea, i've realized that, there's not really a whole lot made for inline stuff. sure there's engine stuff, but as far a ch***is....it's all SBC.
i guess that's whats popular....but i'll keep my inline.

that's the big part...either try and move everything forward change engine mounts, etc... or wait till i can try and destroy that crossmember. bad part about that is....my garage ****s for welding...breakers throw too easily (it's a rent house). so i'd have to measure, take to buddies house, cut weld, take back to car and fit.

thanks for the input man!

 

ha! I have the exact same problem with my garage. When I bought my mig I lived elsewhere and had power to burn, my new place will throw the breakers if I give the lights a dirty look

For what it's worth, it would probably be easier to cut the trans mount. Moving the engine and radiator sounds like a *****. Not familiar with the Watson's as I used one from RB's. I just cut each side about 4-6" from where they bolted on the frame, then trimmed down the trans mount and bolted that to the trans (used a padded jack stand to support the trans), then measured, cut and spot welded some square tubing of the same size at a slight angle to fit. Took it all off and really welded it up good, then bolted it right back on. Sorry, but all the pics I took are at home and I'm supposed to be working here at the office

 

I believe the 292 is th same as my 230. WHat i did was buy s simple ****** mount and fabricate a new crossmember and weld it in. I first did this by cutting an access panel in my floor board ( a nice big one ) which also came in handy when i installed my big ol long lokar shifter. Once i had the hole cut then i was able to st and mark where the cross member needed to go. Welded it in place and all is well with my Not so traditional TH350 on my little ol six banger.

BTW .. if you need help making an access panel DO NOT give the sawsall to 53 ASH hehehehehe

Seriously if you need anything else PM me and i will do what i can.

 

yea, its a *****...and my buddy whoe has a good welder and IS a welder was banned from welding in his garage by his 'ol lady,...he kept starting small fires. haha.

it's cool man. if you don't mind and think about it later could you shoot my some pics of your set-up.

thanks.

 

This is hot rodding. Put the motor where it needs to be and build from there. If something needs to be sliced, diced and reworked to make it work right do it

 

I had to move my radiator forward 2 inches but that was with the stock water pump. They make a shorter version. I also had to notch the core suport to clear the fan and hoses. Not fun but well worth it because the engine fits in there perfect now.

I'd say either do that and keep the head off the firewall or notch the firewall and move the trans crossmember back. Either way it's a pain.

 

yea, it's a pain,....but dad never told me this was an easy hobby/art/love. hehe.

thanks again man!

 

Hey if your using the Waltons you should be able to modify some to take care of both problems. I used this xmember for a 235 and T-5 combo in my 52 Hard Top. I had to raise my motor slightly as the head was also on the fire wall. I also needed to move the two side plates towards the rear of the car so the ****** mount would bolt up. So we made up some stock to do both. Welded them to the plates and used an auto ****** rubber mount. All is well. Dom

 

Well I am not sure what kind of ****** Bob K is running but I know that he has a 292 in his 52 Chevy. Maybe he could give you some tips.

 

BobK runs a 200R

 

Yea, i've never had any luck getting ahold of him through PMs...maybe he'll chime in.

 

alright, so last night i unbolted the engine to free it from the mounts.

i then bolted the crossmember and trans in the STOCK location, where it's "supposed" to be. it moved everything, engine and all, forward about 1-3/4" to 2".

that leaves me a decent amount of space between firewall and block, but NO room for radiator, i guess i'll be moving that as well.
Now i guess it's time to start butchering those engine mounts to fit or make new ones.

the concluesion that i came to last night after starring at everything for awhile was...IF i have the room to move the engine foward and have no clearance issues with that...i figured it would be easier to make/modify new engine mounts than an entire crossmember.

thanks for all the advice, pictures, help.
i appreciate it.

Chris

 

I may not understand the problem, but is there room to move the radiator to in front of the radiator support?

 

yea, there should be enough room for that. i'll have to mock up the front clip...no fenders on the front for clearance verification.

the problem is many things.

if i mount the trans crossmember in it's stock location it moves the engine forward about 2"...which is fine ***uming i don't find any clearance issues. will have to modify/make new motor mounts though.

if i put the engine where the mounts place it it pushes the trans too far back to mount to the crossmember AND puts the head against the firewall. but thats not the big problem...the main problem is with the trans at the "right angle" (3-4 degrees) and the engine where i had it, the flange on the trans tailshaft is in the way of the crossmember,...no clearance at all.
i already looked into moving the crossmember back some...problem there is the crossmember is made to ONLY fit the stock location. as the frame widens towards the center of the car the crossmember becomes too short. AND, i've got a power brake ***embly mounted under the floor which also limits me moving the crossmember back.

 

I'll send you a pick of how i did mine. I think the easiest thing for you to do is to make 4 spacers of some 1 inch square tubing. Put them inbetween the radiator and the core support. I think mine were 1 1/2 inches long. This moved the radiator forward just enough the clear the fan. You might have to grind the core support down just a bit to clear the fan blades. The whole thing took an hour tops.

I will send you some picures tonight. It isn't the best looking thing but it works and you don't have to move the whole core support.

 

There is plenty. You have to notch the under side of the hood just a bit to clear the top of the radiator. It can and has been done. And it is the easiest fix to this problem.

 

the 292 is a different dog having a taller deck and the motor mounts are "offset" (p***. side further foward) unlike their cousins 230/250 and the sbc. build your own mounts and sell the one you have that don't work. the 292/350 swap is a good choice but **** YOU! until you post pic's.

 

Damn straight!

Chris,,,,you're not the first person I've heard of that had problems with that crossmember. I've never bought something from Walton's that I didn't have to modify.

This advice may be too late, but think for a second on all you'll have to change by trying to use that crossmember...cutting the hood, rebuilding your engine mounts, re-mounting your radiator, etc....it seems like a lot vs. just making your own ****** crossmember or modifying the one you have.

I made a drop out crossmember (I think I had a premonition...it's like I could foresee all the transmission problems I was going to have )...it's not pretty, but it works well. Take a look at the plate where the mount goes...this could be modified to work with any mount, wherever you need it...



Good luck with whatever you decide.

Bryan

 

Can you get a shorter tailshaft?

 

2 other options to look at.

If the crossmember is only 1 3/4 or 2 inches off, you can simply bridge the gap between the crossmember mount and the trans mount with some nice thick plate. As long as you keep your hardware decisions correct, you should be able to do it without a trip to your buddies welder!

2. Two pieces of flat stock bolted to the original holes and two more holes that line up with the crossmember. They sell these relocation kits for some combos and swaps and is another proven method.

I don't think you are going to be climbing the ring gear with 400lbs of torque with an inline-6, so I don't think it's worth moving the while front half of the drive line!

 

Reading all of this reminds me of why we love this hobby so much, the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory. My coupe whooped my *** many times but I'm the one smiling now!

 

This might be a good idea. if you can locate the engine somewhere in the middle of the firewall and the radiator. Get some thick *** plate and fab it up!

 

And just so I'm clear.... no matter what you do, lay under it and smoke some more. Honestly, making yourself chill out and clear your thoughts will often lead to new ideas. It's a lot more productive that crawling out, getting ticked and going inside.

 

didn't think about having to notch the hood....