Is this possible?Has anyone did a "thrumount" for outside draglink style steering ,[using a '60s-Mustang steering box?[32 frame]...... I have an F1 but want to use somethin else thats moreNlikely not worn out to start with! I 've saw them under the rail as in a fourbar installation-but Im using Radius rods on my frame. They are the "factory split" set-up -[Im using a '47 Lincoln front axle and all]........
you mean traditional steering? if so according to the speedway catalog you can use the later 60's mustang box (not sure what years exactly, maybe 67-69), they sell the bracket for it too.
Skip Readio sent me these pictures of a car that was featured in The Rodders Journal. It had a steering box mounting backet on top of the frame. I think it was made from 3/16" steel. This picture doesn't help a lot, but it's all I have.
Perhaps this will help. It's a Vega flipped on it's side in an A roadster. It takes up a lot of room, but for this 4 cylinder car it works. The Vega pitman arm is approx 6" long. The Mustang box should work better as far as side room goes.
But guys...doesn't a Mustang pitman arm go UP when mounted draglink style? If it was installed thru the frame that would put the draglink itself at a severe downward angle and result in bump steer. Thats why Mustang boxes are mounted below the frame and use 4 bars. As usual...I stand to be corrected! Bill
I dont know either Hacerbill- Deuce rails-Killer,THANKS C9 I think with you alls pics Im getting a better fix on this swap.....I think it will work...[or it will steer oposite and Ill run into garage wall on way outa shop]
[ QUOTE ] But guys...doesn't a Mustang pitman arm go UP when mounted draglink style? If it was installed thru the frame that would put the draglink itself at a severe downward angle and result in bump steer. Thats why Mustang boxes are mounted below the frame and use 4 bars. As usual...I stand to be corrected! Bill [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I see people saying you can't use an early Mustang box with hairpins. I don't understand why. My recollection of the 4 bar system is that it was developed for the, new at that time, Super Bell tube axle. It wouldn't twist like an I beam. Hair pins restricted the movement of the Super Bell axle. These dropped axles that are showing up were all shit canned in the late 70's for the new and trick Super Bell. So you needed the new and trick 4 bar. At the same time a 15$ steel plate and an 89$ pitman arm would really update that probably worn out stock box or 20 year old F100 box. I see no reason the Mustang box couldn't be used with different types of radius rods as long as they cleared each other. People like to cite the difference in hair pin length to drag link length but the 4 bar system came in multiple lengths depending on the year and fender clearance problems. The Mustang box with the upward pitman arm got the drag link level with the road and eliminated the bump steer as the axle moved up and down over bumps. Bump steer is a function of a non level drag link. That's why bump steer can be eliminated by just mounting the box the same distance from the axle but higher off the ground (on top of the frame as shown above) to get a level drag link. A long winded way of saying that if you get the box too high the downward sloping drag link will bump steer just as bad as one that slopes up. Mount the box to get a level drag link. BTW a stock 32 Ford drag link is 17" shorter than the wish bone pivot point with no bump steer until you drop the axle and angle the drag link.
mustang box works well with four bar ( its traveling in the same arc) pitman arm going up with split bones / hairpins theoritically causes bump steer (two very differnt arcs) this being said i have installed a couple of 37-48 pass boxes (pitman arm up) drive fine! you have to understand you are not building a road racer..its a hotrod using old antique stuff the suspension travels maybe 2.5 inch on a bad day,, using bias ply tires, i belive bumpsteer is not that big of a factor on an old hot rod, but the pitman arm going up is kinda ugly in my opinion get the pete and jakes catolog they do a good job explaining , even have pictures...... just dont buy into all that four bar hype
[ QUOTE ] mustang box works well with four bar ( its traveling in the same arc) pitman arm going up with split bones / hairpins theoritically causes bump steer (two very differnt arcs) this being said i have installed a couple of 37-48 pass boxes (pitman arm up) drive fine! you have to understand you are not building a road racer..its a hotrod using old antique stuff the suspension travels maybe 2.5 inch on a bad day,, using bias ply tires, i belive bumpsteer is not that big of a factor on an old hot rod, but the pitman arm going up is kinda ugly in my opinion get the pete and jakes catolog they do a good job explaining , even have pictures...... just dont buy into all that four bar hype [/ QUOTE ] We can agree to disagree. I don't by the hype. I'm not favoring a Mustang or a 4 bar over anything else. They do work well from my experience, but the are ugly on a high boy. we agree there. The old hotrodders used to change the worm gear and sector in the early Ford boxes to get an upward 32 pitman arm long before a Mustang was ever made. The box was mounted in the factory holes but the upward pitman arm leveled the drag link eliminating the problem.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] mustang box works well with four bar ( its traveling in the same arc) pitman arm going up with split bones / hairpins theoritically causes bump steer (two very differnt arcs) this being said i have installed a couple of 37-48 pass boxes (pitman arm up) drive fine! you have to understand you are not building a road racer..its a hotrod using old antique stuff the suspension travels maybe 2.5 inch on a bad day,, using bias ply tires, i belive bumpsteer is not that big of a factor on an old hot rod, but the pitman arm going up is kinda ugly in my opinion get the pete and jakes catolog they do a good job explaining , even have pictures...... just dont buy into all that four bar hype [/ QUOTE ] We can agree to disagree. I don't by the hype. I'm not favoring a Mustang or a 4 bar over anything else. They do work well from my experience, but the are ugly on a high boy. we agree there. The old hotrodders used to change the worm gear and sector in the early Ford boxes to get an upward 32 pitman arm long before a Mustang was ever made. The box was mounted in the factory holes but the upward pitman arm leveled the drag link eliminating the problem. [/ QUOTE ] that only works when the bone is not split .the drag link stays level in a lowered car like it would be in a stocker... when the bones are split it changes the geometry.... the piviot point on the steering arm (tierod end) would need to be as close to the arc as possible to the wish bone arc. again pete and jakes catolog.excellent job explaining...i was talking about the pete and jakes hype on four bar...... the pitman arm going up would result in a very differnt arc than that of the wish bone unless pivot points are directly above and below each other... with the limited travel of a hot rod bump steer is pretty much unnoticeable.if the travel were like 6'' you would notice..... like i said i also use a pass box with the pitman arm goin up it works fine can drive any speed and no noticeable bumpsteer..but the geometry tells you its there.......... its not the "proper" way to set it up but it still does work good
My limited experience with Beam axle front suspension is this......it IS driveable, but its never gonna drive like a late model independent front does...... I am looking for a happy medium where I dont have to work-white knucled all the time Im driving!
I used a '65 mustang box. Mounted sideways,with the draglink straightend,and pointing up,because of ground clearance.
Choprods, did you see the pics I posted awhile back of my steering on the 31 Plymouth? Its a thru-mount, converted a 46 S2D pickup cross-steer in order to get a box that would let the drag link sit above the pitman shaft. If you want, I can repost the pics Ray
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