I don't know where you are in SoCAl but there are a few apprenticeships that he may be able to do. Steamfitters and Sheetmetal Workers are two off hand that I would recommend. The day is usually broken apart pretty well. Your attention span is not really a factor because you are not doing the same thing twice and you are working on mechanical stuff and welding. I went to college and did school after my degree. Sat in a cubical for 5 years, travelled and worked crazy hours on salary. I HATED IT. I love what I do and it is always something new and different....and you can make a ton of money to pay for this disease. My father is retiring next year and has about 23 old cars. I have about nine and just got out of my time a year ago. I have put at least 10k in my annuity, aka 401k, every year fromthe beginning. It is if he wants to do it and can do it. If he can think and do stuff mechanically the right way he should be fine. His back may hurt somedays but I guess you can say that about any opportunity. Larry Steamfitter's Local 420
Man, a question for the ages, I think the best place to start is to accept that anything that you learn is yours, whatever direction you choose to go, knowledge will have to be obtained. We could debate all day the way the education system works or don't work, but here are some of the issues we encounter daily, I hope this helps. First the automotive industry is looked at as one occupation, where as the industry has three individual areas, the repair based division , that includes, dealerships, body shops, repair shops, ect..., the 2nd is manufacturing/distribution division, which includes everything invloved in producing vechicles , replacement parts , ect...., the 3rd is the performance vehicle marketplace, hot rods, muscle cars, concept vechicles, ect... 80% of the training offered is in the repair arena, and even though some training venues vest alot of add dollars in performance fluff their desired focus is in meeting the needs of the dealerships. Each division has skillsets that are needed to survive in the industry.The repair based skillsets are entry level and the market is in such a demand that filling positions for training schools is relative. Training technitions for production based jobs takes a totally different group of skillsets, ironically in some instances the skillsets don't compliment each other, meaning standard automotive skills don't always add to your resume' ,the demographic of technition changes drastically when you standing in production positions daily.The performance vehicle fabricators use as many as 30 skillsets all the repair skills, Mig/Tig, CAD modeling, metal shaping , custom refinshing, chassis fab, vechicle dynamics, ect.. Tech schools often offer programs that take a year to two years , with this in mind it would take years to be ready to go to work with alot of unnessicary information. In the early 1990's we focused our training on short term hands on equipment specific programs, meaning if you needed english wheel training that was the focus, this method put job related skills in place quickly. In 1997 Our instructors were challenged to meet the needs of the professional motorsports industry by concentrating on dedicated skillsets needed to be professional technitions. We met the needs with 1700 trained technitions. The performance industry is stronger than ever and for once the value of the vehicles warrants a dedicated workforce, we get calls looking for fabricators almost everyday, with entry level positons at $20 @hr. Many suggest that automotive technology gives you a cushion incase, you need to fall back on it, our experience is that most custom shops nationwide , discount the value of automotive technology training because of the mindset needed to make a living changing parts , vs. the skillsets and imagination needed to build custom cars. Now the students, we have successfully trained technitions with every initial diagnosed issue known, parents walk in with tears in their eyes, once the student walks in the labs everything that happened before then dissappears , they become a student of their industry and grasp every oppurtunity to exxel. Whichever direction you son chooses he needs to know time and training are directly relative ,a year long program that introduces dedicated skills can eclipse years of field training, programs with two many students in classes challenge information, and everytime you waste motion you can't get it back!!! Mark Davis, Metalcraft Skillcenter www.metalcrafttools.com
Noname, good for him (and You! )Didn't mean to impune. Thought Doc Watson put that out in fromt pretty well, and I got the picture; your son is an exception to the rule. Passion for anything is important, although not nessessary. You can be better than most other employees just by showing up and giving some thought to the work you are supposed to be doing for the company that hired you. My purpose was general guidance here. It is of course possible to overcome the hurdles of a degree of physical limitation, which I'm not sure others here are giving full credence to, and to overcome building a successful business with little formal education. But the deck is stacked against you. If this young man we are offering advice to is one of those other exceptions, he will know it in time and be able to make carear adjustments, like most of us do. I'd just like to be able to accelerate his potential for prosperity and good health while he is young so he'll be able to make clearer chioces a little later.
I should start out telling you I'm not a guy making a 6 figure income. I quit chasing that rat race several years ago. With that in mind, if your persuit in life is to make a lot of money, you will probably not be a very happy person. There will always be someone making more money then you. Money is only a tool you use to fund a lifestyle, it will not in itself buy you happiness. Like someone said earlier, the goal is not to have things to make you happy but to be happy with what you have. The next issue I have is with the "go to college, get a good job" group. I personally know several people that spent much money going to college and are not doing anything related to the degree they hold, and several of them are making less income then I am. However, I also know several people that went to college for a specific reason, they are doing well. I think you have to have a specific thing you want to get from any form of higher education for it to be worth the money invested. It goes back to passion. If you have a passion for something, and you persue it with everything you have, you will aquire the education you need to follow your passion to its end. If your truely following a passion, money is not an issue, you will find a way with or without it. I'm sorry your son crashed his bike and messed up his back. As I see it, he now has two options. Play the "poor little me" role or get on with his life. Sounds to me like he has accepted his limitations and is looking for a way to move forward. Might be such a thing as his back was messed up because he is suppose to do something with his life to improve life for others inflected with his limitations. Sounds like he has a passion to work with his hands and build things. A trade school where he can learn to use the equipment available to persue his dreams would be the place to begin. For all we know, he may be the guy that makes the greatest invention ever concieved for improving the quality of life for millions of people. He probably can't do that at a "good" job. Gene
A couple things for young folks......... Dont use Credit cards Learn how to use a budget Any questions try www.daveramsey.com
Coming from a teacher's perspective, tell your son to suck it up and get an education if he wants a good living into the future. He can't stand forlong periods, so that eliminates a LOT of the "blue Collar" type of jobs. He has to go white collar. Not all white collar jobs involve a suit and tie. Sales can be anything he wants, and in some cases, do not require a college degree. My bro makes about a quarter mil a year with no college degree working as a wholesaler for home loans (still semi stable). If he is a go-getter, there is a job out there for him. The one thing I will never stand for with any kids is excuses. There is a way around anything if he wants. Dima
I had a similar problem when I graduated high school in 2001, I attended a community college but only the core classes. I had to pay for my own education and had no clue what I wanted to do, although my father was dead set on making me get an engineering degree which made it even tougher to chose a different path. I Found a job at a Goodyear dealer, excelled at sales and had a blast doing custom wheel fitments. I also watched the manager do nothing but work and never see his kids, struggling to make a good living and decided this was not the path for me. Found out a school right by home had a business management degree with a focus on the automotive aftermarket industries. I will graduate this spring after three years of busting my ass, maybe become a manufacturer's rep or work on the corporate side of a manufacturer. Its taken seven years to get there, I learned so much in those years I did not attend school and am pleased with the path I took, there is nothing more important than a good education. www.northwood.edu <-- If your son has an interest in the business side of the aftermarket.
damn guess Im shi* outta luck haha Im a 16yo high school drop out. haha this thread helped me out some but Im all ready setup for the job in the future thing. Im getting my GED right now at a school in Troy NY called EOC and after I get my GED they have a large welding program where they teach you everything and you become fully certified in the field and from there on out Im going out west to weld on the pipe lines and that type of stuff and well see how it goes from there but Im figuring that after about 20 years of welding Ill have a bad back and be half blind and prolly loose some hearing but shit thats just the fun part haha. Getting back to the subject if he cant stand up dont let him go into the workforce to where its all manual labor since he'll only get worse as time goes by. The car thing is the worst for trying to make a living I might be young but I have alot of friends struggling to make endsmeat with the building and working on hot rods thing. Theres just not enough money in it especially for the time and money it takes. Also with the car thing if you do it for your job you really get burned out and your hobby turns into a nightmare. The art thing is prolly the best thing for him and with all the new computers and crap with some learning almost anyone can do it its just tell him to be the best he possible can at it and once he is tell him to keep it that way.
As a young(er) person, I throw in my 2 cents...I was always a good student (the kind of guy most of you would have picked on in school), got a scholarship to college, graduated with a criminal justice degree and couldn't decide what to do with my life. I got a pretty good job as a fulltime police/fire dispatcher, with benefits, part timed as a firefighter/EMT, and played with cars for fun and to make extra money. While I was in high school I had started a very informal apprenticeship in the restoration shop of a car museum, and eventually left it midway through college. About a year or so after school, the guy I apprenticed with, also a good friend, was forced out of work when the museum ran into money troubles. I had a few bucks saved, and we started our own shop together - classics, musclecars, etc. I managed it and worked there about 20hrs/wk and kept the full time job for another year. The shop went ok but we had our problems. Everyone says don't start a business with a friend. I disagree. Just don't start one with a friend who's depressed, about to be divorced and dead broke! Anyway, 5 years later, I bought him out and started on working on making this business something I really enjoy. I'm also married with an 8 month old daughter. I've been through the gamut - no money, customers owing me money (and me suing them over it), racking up debt, fighting deadlines, trying to make rent and keep the roof from leaking, working by myself every day and still finding time to do the books, taxes, finding time for a wife and now a child as well, selling my favorite car to pay for my daughter's birth because our insurance was cancelled 2 months before she was due, etc... And I actually think I had it pretty easy. I don't make a ton of money now, but I make ends meet and have a reasonable amount of family time and still find some time for my toys. I could work more, but I don't want to lose my family over success/money. I guess my point is that if someone wants to make a go at this, he or she will have to be a real jack of all trades, or at least have the business sense and the financial backing to find the right people to help with everything. He'll also need the drive to keep at it constantly. Its not just about having a passion for doing the work, you've got to be able to keep the doors open and the lights on so you can do it! Since I was little, I always wanted to do something like this for a living, but I also have several trades to fall back on if I'm injured, put out of business, or some other tragedy befalls me... One other point: I would be doing a lot better if I could find some decent help. There is apparently NO ONE in this area who has more than burger flipping skills, or if he does, who cares to show up sober or willing to work. Just two weeks ago I had a guy call for an interview half drunk...Also, a lot of younger people I meet have the skills, but all think they're going to open their own shop and get rich like the guys on tv. One or two might...guess how many won't. Whatever your son chooses, please be supportive and not too judgmental. My dad said some of the exact things I've heard from you guys, and its good advice, but didn't really help. I would much rather had business advice from Dad. I think about what it would be like to have a white collar job, making good money and having cars as a hobby. I don't think I would like myself as much...But that's me...
No disrespect but I don't think this is very good information. The key is to be smart with them and use them wisely. If you are unable to act responsively with them then yes they can be very harmful. In fact they can mess up someone's life at an early age if used improperly. With all that being said it is almost necessary to have some form of credit these days and age. Unless you have tons of cash laying around the average person will need a decent credit score to purchase a house. Some really simple things like cell phones can not be had without some form of credit. My suggestion is to get SOME credit cards only if you can be responsible with them and use them as a tool to build up your credit. Good credit can really make life easier down the road. -Chris
hey everyone i am the kid that dave is talking about. my name is jeffrey i am 21 as you all know and here are the things he didn't quite tell you about that may or may not change your opinion because truthfully nobody knows what is right for me other than me. well here goes nothing first of all yes i broke my back however i am more than able to do everything you or anyone else and i can wear a tool belt and stand for long periods of time. he wrote that as a "just in case sort of thing". i am not a lousy book learner i just don't apply myself as much as i should. i am currently in college yes a jr. college but college non the less. i am one of those people that doesn't see the point in jumping thru hoops for a stupid grade that truly means nothing in the end. i have what i would like to say is quite a bit of experince in the hot rod field. my dad and i built my 67 chevy C-10 together as my first project and learned soo much then. i have done a few engine swaps in different types of cars. then there is my front engine dragster that i built myself with the help of my dads check book. i didn't build the chasis for various reason like being safe and leagal. so yeah when all you say GO TO COLLEGE you should be saying STAY in college. now i want to say THANKS for all your replies they have come in handy. i understand were you are all coming from because in todays day and age a high school diploma is nothing but you don't know that i have been successful in two businesses one being, lawn care the other being custom Wrought iron gates and fencing. i have allways wanted to own a business and someday i will own more than one at a time. i don't believe you ever learn as much in school as you do in real hands on applications. and to all you tellling me to go to a trade school i really wanted to go to WYO Tech but my parents talked me out of it because "there is no money in it " that is building hot rods. but i don't want to build cars for the money i want to build them for the love that i have for them. i am thinking of becoming a mechanical engineer. i have always been into anything mechanical. i just want to be happy. i am also trying to become a corrections officer for the state of California. i am trying to do this because the start at 73 thousand a year. so i figure that i could live i a pos apartment and save all my money to open my first of many businesses. i hope that maybe someday i will figure out what I want to do for a living and maybe just maybe be happy. so i hope i didn't bore you all to death with my little rant and thanks again for all the replies and hope there is more to come
You sound like me when I was your age. I thought I had it all figured out... I wanted to go to Wyo-Tech... but my shop teacher brought up a good point "You don't want to be 60 years old, crawling under cars." Back then... they didn't have Wyo for building race cars and hot rods... probably wouldn't have learned as much if I would have gone anyway... I mean, learned about life, hot rods and women. Besides... I hated school... HE said, "Why not become a shop teacher?" I went to JC... then to state college... got my BA degree in Industrial Arts... then my teaching credential... then my admin credential... I taught woodshop for ten years... and then have been an Assistant Principal for 3... all the time building, racing and enjoying hot rods on all the time off I have. I didn't take school seriously... until I got my Admin Credential and my MA degree... I have A.D.D... had it before they knew what it was. Today? Well, I've come full circle... and am in-on building a new auto shop... I wrote a 4.5 million dollar grant to fill the thing with all the cool tools a guy could want. I am self taught in TIG, MIG, OXY/ACC welding as well as running a mill and lathe... although I did have a couple of machine shop classes in college along the way. If all goes well... I will be back in the classroom in '09-10 doing what I love and teaching kids what I have learned. Good luck... and send me a PM along the way if you need advice. Oh, and don't be too proud to ask for advice... we all need it. Sam.
Jeffrey, sounds like you've got a good start. Being somewhat in your spot at your age, I remember everyone saying the same things - basically that you have to have everything figured out before you make your first step. Not true. You never truly know where you'll end up, but if you pick a direction, have some goals in mind, and work hard at it, I think you'll eventually end up in a good place. Even if it miles from where you thought you'd be! Good luck man.
My kids are 8,6 and 3. Already, I semi-jokingly have them repeat after me. "I will go to business school first. Then I will pursue my favorite vocation." Own the company. Don't work for it. Learn how to manage money and people and both will make money for you. Unfortunately, I'm learning these things at a time when it's very difficult to back up and start over, although it can be done. If your son has no interest in "book smarts", find some inspirational books on tape(cd, pod cast, etc.) about what it takes to make it in life. Maybe you can get him to listen to something while he's driving somewhere. It takes a relatively very short time in your youth to make a huge difference in the rest of your life. That's one of the most difficult things to teach to a youth. They (I) think they have plenty of time and then it's too late. Marriage, kids, mortgage, settlement, health issues, etc. will stop the average person from pursuing their big dreams (duh!). The marriage, kids and work are even more wonderful if you've established yourself first. Discipline ain't easy, but it's always worth the trouble.
Ever think about McPherson College? http://www.mcpherson.edu/technology/ Yes, it is a 'restoration' college but you learn skills there essential to any type of car building/restoration. I have met some great kids that are attending or have graduated from there. Seems like they come out real level headed and appreciate the opportunities they are given. They also seem to have a really great placement program after graduation. I have ran into graduates in all walks of life, including hot rod builders. I for one am not on the WyoTech bandwagon. I've met people that went there that had no skills at all after graduation. I'm worried it is becoming so mainstream it is becoming a diploma mill. Just my .02 though. Upon graduation from high school I really wanted to go to a tech school. My parents really didn't want me to go to a tech school. So we made a deal. If I went to a 'real' college, obtained a degree and still wanted to go to tech school after they would help me out. So, I went to a private four year college, studied like crazy, double majored in public relations and journalism, graduated a semester early and started engineering school January 8th-- less than a month after my graduation. No matter what kind of school you are going to, it is SCHOOL. You have to pay attention, you have to study and you have to be prepared for the tests. As for the no education route, that is just scary in the new millenium. Growing up in a rural farming community we were raised as college not being a necessity. I can clearly see both sides of the fence. On the con side I've heard the arguments-- some people aren't programmed to go to school; if everyone goes to school who will do the blue collar work? BUT as I am seeing all of the family farms, mills and small machine shops dry up I'm also seeing lots of foreclosure signs as well. Just because you have a skill or even skills doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to find a job. As much as I hate to admit it, we are becoming a college diploma driven society. I encourage you to put 100% into whatever you chose. I'm glad you are in college and getting a feel for it. I've always found when you are stuyding something you like and enjoy it isn't studying at all. Good luck, keep us posted!
I just got out of college two years ago and I know that it can be expensive but it does afford one to decide what they really want from life. I graduated with a degree in Architecture and Planning and decided by the time I got out that I did not want to work on long drwn out projects in that type of atmosphere right now. It may seem like a waste of money but I have retain all of the design skills and have applied them to the field of Design that I am in now. Now I understand that you son does not like books and would rather work with his hands, so college may not be the best choice for him. What about getting into set design or Cad operated programs for CNC machines. Something like that would allow him to build and not be on his feet for long periods of design. One thing is for sure, the only that that you can do is really support him as he finds his path. Encourage his likes and talents and that should steer him in the right direction.
Great advice from many on here, especially the lastest entry from Megan who believe it or not is only a couple of years older then you BUT look at her reply and how it is written and yours. You might not like this BUT you must apply yourself and not only earn decent grades BUT learn what they are teaching you. You need a basic English class. Your skills are sub-par and unacceptable in the real world, or maybe I should say business world. If you wrote anything like that for me, no matter your education level, I would not hire you. If you wrote a business plan for a bank at your level I highly doubt they would lend you money to start a business. Not trying to bust your balls, just want to give you alittle food for thought. Apply yourself in school and you'll never regret it later in life. Don't apply yourself and you just might end up suffering the consequences.
to this dude, i was taught to write to your audience and i did so. i was not writing a fucking english paper. i was writing to what i thought was some fellow car guys that wern't going to judge me on my reply. i was not taking my time i was just trying to let you all in on my side of things. my dad has a tendency to do things like this because he doesn't always know how to talk to me and he thinks this is how he will get through to me. i know that if i was writing a business plan that what i wrote would never get me any money. however you don't know me and are judging me on my little rant about how i felt about what you all said, so like that stupid ass saying don't judge a book by its fucking cover.
These guys are right - get an education credential of some sort - it is the 'generally accepted minimum standard', for example, to have a BA in Business or similar for what I do - I run a school for aspiring race car mechanics. I am headed back to school while dealing with the stress of running one and a commute and a home based business and a very supportive wife .Its tough but its really a requirement if I am to be taken seriously. In 10 years I have placed entry level mechanics all over the world- F-1 to NASCAR - and all are making good money and are relatively happy BUT they are using up their bodies and have no fall back plan. One friend had both knees replaced last year after doing pit stops and similar grunt work for years. He is now doing consulting and is lucky that his wife has a REAL job. At 21 a year or two is forever and at 43 its a blink of an eye. My son asked if he should go to my school; my boss offered a free ride; I said " If you are asking you probably don't really want to" and I am relieved that he doubled his efforts at the Junior College ; transfered into UCLA as a junior and is networking and learning his way to a nice, comfortable future. He will buy a home in California; he will have a family; and he will have toys but he knows that its and investment in himself now that will get all that. Enough time spent with broken down flat broke hard working people will teach some to learn then earn. I hope you read this far - I give you credit for asking and I wish you luck. PS Learn to type I wish I had.
ahhh....yeah.....Denise is not a "dude".... Think about why they pay corrections officers $73k/year to babysit convicts. It's probably not because it's a fun job. Anyways, if you have the math skills (calculus) to get an engineering degree, you should really seriously consider doing it. The one thing the grades get you is a diploma, and that makes it a hell of a lot easier to get a good paying job. Since you know what you're doing building cars, you'll have the advantage of being able to apply your course work (in your head at least) to real life situations, which should make it easier to learn. I worked at a junkyard and a trans shop, and was drag racing every weekend, when I was in engineering school. It did help. Also the "fun" of earning minimum wage, busting knuckles and getting dirty gave me some extra motivation to finish school. Just trying to help (as is Denise, I'm sure)...
Been there, done that. Worked blue collar for several years out of HS and then went to college in my early 20s. If "book smart" is an issue, choose the college carefully. I have an engineering degree, but believe me, I'd have washed out at a real school like Purdue. Instead, I did the jr college thing for 3 years and worked my way through an AA degree. Took lots of night classes since the profs on nights were looking to pass you, instead of looking to fail you. Having an actual AA degree instead of just transferrable credit hours got me out of a TON of readin, writin, & rithamtic at the "real" college that came next. Which leads us to our next decision. The light duty 4-year school. I found a college specializing in teachers and accountants, that also had an industrial tech building across the street. 90% of my time at that school was in the small environment of that building, and things were much easier there than on the main campus. The process got me a bachelor's degree in engineering and nobody other than me knows how different my education was than the typical "engineer". I get paid the same as them so it works out fine! Don't be proud. I washed out of calculus at the big school and took it at a shithole community college across town and passed purely by the pity of my teacher. But again, I get paid the same as my co-workers who aced calculus, so it works out fine. In a decade of engineering, have yet to use it anyway. There's a college diploma for all of us. You just gotta find the right one. Good luck
yup....there are a few engineers who do use the math frequently, but the only time I used it was to do the homework and test problems in the higher level engineering classes. But having the basic understanding of how the math works, does seem to affect how I see things when I'm trying to figure something out.
Capitalization and paragraphs is not writing a "fucking" English paper, dude. Whover taught you to write to your audience, whatever that means, and you think you what, you need to write DOWN to a bunch of car guys?? Give me a break. I was just giving you food for thought and you get all defensive because some of us are stating the obvious. You've got a major attitude, it's apparent in your responses and how you talk about your Father who is only trying to help. I wish you only the best, seriously. Your going to need it and by the way, you will get judged by your "cover" all the time. Right or wrong, get use to it. By the way, my company does not hire anyone with facial piecing and visable tatts. Like it or not, that's juding a book by it's cover. Our customer base would freak out and we like staying in business and in case you didn't know the economy in Michigan sucks yet my company is continuing to hire and expand and I got a huge raise this year when lots of my friends are getting laid off and taking pay cuts. Go ahead play the game your way, fuck the advice from your Dad and others that have been there. After all, your know everything right?? I hope your Father comes back 10 years from now and tells us exactly where your at and what your doing in life. Oh yeah, Denise is a girls name.......but maybe you have a problem reading too, not just writing. STAY IN "FUCKING" SCHOOL
The problem with "English" classes and the like, is that they are all subjective. Meaning, I got an A+ in English 101 at Schoolcraft College, first semester, freshman year. I wrote what I felt, meaning that if I had to cuss, or say "dude" or whatever, I did. My teacher loved it, ate it up. Then I went to English 103, the "advanced" freshman English course, and, guess what? I had an Indian (the Asian kind) teacher that didn't apprieciate my sly, sarcastic, mid-western kid style. I got a "C". Average. My advice, take it or leave it... do what you want. I got a piece of paper (from Ferris State University) that say's I'm a Heavy Equipment Tech graduate. Does it mean shit? I don't know. But with that paper I've worked everywhere from construction equipment to steel mills to cruise missile engine overhaul. Did they teach me that shit? No, but the piece of paper says you can finish something you start. I got cool jobs either because of that or the fact I'm an Eagle scout. If I were to do it again, I'd go computer science, fo shizzle. You'd be surprised at the lack of dirt in CS, and where would you rather be, pulling a PT6 off a wing in Helsinky in December, or under the receptionist's desk cause her "hard drive" isn't working? My two cents. Jay
It does truly mean something. Grades may determine whether the next school you want to attend will have ya. Your prospective employers will also need a minimum GPA unless they're paying shit. Grades will get ya a cushy job with good benefits, a job that lets you go home ready to tear into your hotrod instead of needing physical recovery time. A job that will pay for hotrods nicer than you can even dream today, cause even if you build em, the highest end cars are made of expensive parts. Would you rather make 70K in a friendly environment, or make it babysitting people throwing shit & piss through the bars? Good luck either way. ps- The HAMB ain't a text message. Put some thought (and capitals) in your posts and you'll get a better reception.
The Jalopy Journal
