Seat Harnesses and roll bars

Didn't see much on this by doing a search. Educate me! Thinking about running a cowl substructure and maybe trying to incorporate a roll structure of some kind into the body of my Model A. Would like to see what you guys have done if you've gone to this level.

Also, when I think of roll bars and interior structures I think of seat harnesses. Thinking about harnesses as well. I'm thinking of running 4-points with a quick release cam buckle. Maybe even a retractable type, if they're still making them.

Here's a harness that comes to mind that Summit sells. I know there are a TON of practical harnesses out there though. I will probably never need the submarine strap either...


Would appreciate some input and comments related to both subjects.

Thanks!
Scooter

 

When i built my old 32 3 window i wanted some sort of a bar in it. I wasn't looking for a full tilt race cage, more of an old style 4 point.
I had a friend who built race car's bend up a main hoop. The dia used was that of a 6 pt cage, i can't remember the exact dia and thickness..
Anyway, it was welded to 3/8 steel plate's that bolted through the body to the frame via 8 grade 8 bolts, 4 on each side. There were two bar's that ran into the trunk though the trunk divider as well, again, welded to 3/8 plate and through bolted to the frame with 8 grade 8 bolts in similar fashion.. I don't have any pics of the trunk bars though..sorry.
I know this wasn't as strong as if i had welded it to the frame, but i don't think it was too far off and it was removable.
I didn't use actual harnesses in this car though. I used old style lap belt's with the lift latches.
For mounting the belt's in this car, i used one existing bolt on each side used to hold the cage down, and then for the inside belt's, used the tab's given with the belts and bolted them through the frame crossmemebr.
Not sure if any of this is info what your looking for..Just thought it was somewhat of what you mentioned..




I built a street/strip Malibu year's ago as well (obviously not HAMB fodder), and with that one i had a full 10 pt cage built to p*** NHRA insp, welded to the frame etc...with 5 pt harnesses for both p*** and driver. It was pretty much a street car for me, so when i drove it i just used the lap portion of the harness.

When i build the 5 window in my avitar next, that too will have a similar bar set up like my old 3 window..
Tony

 

Scott, Tony totally nailed what I was getting at. Look at his pix!! Awesome!!

 

Just one note those race harnesses are a pain in the *** on the street...just my .02.

 

I was thinking of doing the same thing with my pickup,but I don't want the back bars coming out the back of the cab so I might do small front "S" shaped side bars instead?

 

This is what I'm thinking

 

suggest you get ahold of an NHRA rulebook (or something similar) and become familiar with what they require for race cars. That will give you a starting point.

Although you have to keep in mind that their requirements are designed for a race car driven by someone wearing a helmet.

 

I didn't want a flimsy hot rod that popped the doors open in bumpy corners or killed ya in a 10mph side impact, this is what we came up with. (unfortunately not my handiwork). Tubing welded along the roadster tub's edge with downlegs to the floor behind the seat. Definitely not race legal, but should be nice and strong. By bolting the downleg's bottom plates the body can still be removed, but the bar is a permanent part of the body structure. Standard roll hoop up against the back of the firewall will mount the pedals & steering box while providing secondary protection.

 

For NHRA you need a 6 point roll bar if you run 11.99 or faster in the 1/4 mile. The side bars can't be bent like I showed but you can have a swing out side bar. But I didn't think thats what he was needing the roll bar for.

 

Just remember to not tie your shoulder straps to low in the back. You would like them just a bit lower than the top of your shoulder, if they are lower, in an impact they will compress your spine down.

 

that's why on the street you use only the lap belt.

 

That only offers half the protection.........

 

This is rule #1

 

REALLY good responses here!!! Thank you!!

Tony! That looks great! Nice and simple and bumps the level of protection up a notch!! I like it!!

Shifty! AWESOME! This is more like what I was thinking. I would like to do something that implements what you're doing with what Tony did. I'm honestly not looking for an NHRA certified roll cage. Just something that will blend into the body and be functional in the safety department. I've got TONS of real estate on this body to hide structural tubing. I might as well take advantage of it and add a little more rigidity and safety to the body.

Yeah... I've heard the harnesses can be a pain. That's why I wanted to ask and get some input. It's also why I was thinking that the camlock would be the best bet. I can't remember which ones I saw, but I saw one yesterday in a quick Google search that you could use the shoulder belts independently or not at all.

lBB41! EXCELLENT tip!! This is the type of stuff I would also like to hear in this thread! Installation is key to make these things worth while. I'm also going to ***ume that when you anchor these you should NOT thru bolt them to the frame in the event that the body would shift and shear the bolts. Therefore mounting them to secure locations in the body. Is this an accurate ***umption??

Keep the comments coming! Great stuff here! Thanks!!!!

 

Just another thing to think about; if you put any bars anywhere near your head you better plan to wear a helmet at all times. Skulls and roll bars don't mix. You are still probably better off than nothing at all, however. And, mount your shoulder straps as close to your shoulders as possible, the belts will STRETCH up to 3" in a hard impact, and your face can easily find it's way to the shifter or steering wheel. The shorter the belt, the better.

Also, the latch-type harness may look more old-timey than the cam-locks.

Hope that helps some!

 

HI! Sorry... couldn't resist.

VERY valid point! A safety cage wouldn't be very safe if I was whacking my head on it! LOL! I'm thinking about actually incorporating them into the 'B' pillar. It would appear as if half the tubing would be sticking out of the pillar. I think I have 2-inches of pillar to work with and I have to reinforce them anyway, so shaping tubing to fit in the space would work out really well (I think).

The other thing I was thinking about was just simply boxing the hell out of the 'B' pillars and then tieing them into a stonger roof sturcture made of tubing or something and then running tubing down the back behind the driver that would hug the back panels of the body (picture a coupe body). I've already built a pretty substantial subfloor, so there's lots to tie in to.

 

Tony... you mentioned you bolted the belts to the crossmember. i thought you weren't suppose to do this incase the body and frame seperated in a wreck? just wondering...

 

a lap belt is 100% more protection than nothing. lap belts are all 90% of hot rods have, if anything. if someone wants maximum protection on the street, i'd go with a lap/ retractable shoulder belt(3pt) rather than a 4 pt harness. as you surely know, for proper protection shoulder harnesses need to hold you tight to the seat ALL the time with no wiggle room. not practical on the street.

 

I don't have any really good pictures of what's going on with my body, and the body is further along than what's in the picture, for that matter, but at least you can see the B-pillars and all the space above the doors where I could hide some pretty serious tubing. I'll try to get some better pictures this weekend of what it looks like inside now. Still lots of reinforcements in place.



Another showing subfloor and how it meets the 'B' pillar. Taken LONG after the first picture...

 

Someone used to make a retractable 'Y' type harness that gave you comfort on the street, but then can be locked in place when doing any type of racing. I can't seem to find it though.

 

BINGO! Found it!! Looks like a GREAT option for pratical street driving!



$100 too!

Looks like it's designed for off roading...
http://www.quadratec.com/products/24248_30X_PG.htm

 

Here's a little blurb from CORBEAU on them...

 

there ya go!

i had a shortened T sedan like that too for a few years...

 

Good thread scooter! This exact thing has been whirling around in my little brain now for a couple years and you have some great responses here. There's also a guy on here named C9 who had some great ideas on this. As most folks here know the A's don't have much protection so this is something to thing about. When I see these hi speed crashes on TV I wonder how the A would handle that type of situation, street or strip. As far as bolting the bar to the frame, we all know that welding is best but, I don't see anything wrong with it if it's done right. If the crash is so bad that the body seperates from the frame, you're going to have serious injuries,etc. to deal with anyway. Great topic.

 

YES! C9 is VERY knowledgable on most/all facets of hot rodding! I'm sure he'll chime in.

Yeah, these are little cars for sure. I know safety isn't really a "period correct" subject, but I figure if I can do it low key, do it so it's actually HELPING the sturctural integrity of the body (which I need to address ANYWAY), and take the safety up a notch, why not do it. I think the execution is really the key.

When we put Hagan 3-point shoulder belts in our 35 coupe (or I should say, when we took them out of the BOX to install them), I was reading over the paperwork that came with them and it said NOT to bolt through the floor to the frame in the event that the body would shift and sheer the mounting hardware. This makes sense to me. I guess if your body was rigid enough, you would rely on it to "encapsulate" the drive and/or p***enger. The subfloor and body structure would help to protect the occupants in the car.

 

Most racing ***ociations, want seat belts mounted to a solid postion on the roll gage itself NOT to ANY sheet metal. Roll cages in turn should be mounted solidly to the frame once again NOT sheet metal. Should not be any different for the street.

 

That non-sub harness is perfect for a "better than stock" application but let's make it clear that if you are on the strip, that harness is useless without a sub belt. It's the same protection as a 3 point.

Good thinking though... keep it easy to use so you'll use it!

 

Exactly! I fully agree with everything you just said!

 

I was trying to keep things vague for informational purposes so I would be helping the m***es that read this instead of just offering my case in point, but I see I might need to clarify what I am personally trying do... or should I say, NOT do...

I've got a big *** engine mounted in a really small car that I fully intend on driving the hell out of and also would like to take it on trips and potentially make it a daily driver. For this reason, I'm simply trying to bump up the safety level where/when possible. The car is not being built for the drag strip or to meet anyone's standards, except my own. So, with that being said, I don't care what rule books say, or what the standards are for NHRA, SCTA, or any other organization. Just want to essentially beef this car up structurally.

I agree that a "safety/roll cage" should ideally be welded and not bolted right to the frame, and by most rules books is probably REQUIRED to be welded to the frame and not bolted. This isn't really what I'm personally looking for, but still think it should be talked about since this the information in this thread isn't JUST for me. So let's keep chatting.

Just wanted to clarify MY intentions... just to beef up a little Model A body to offer some extra integrity and safety for a good street car.

 

OOH...
You can get this one (left) with a chrome flap buckle!
50 bucks+15 for the chrome buckle.
http://www.gotbelts.com/4popac****be.html

Damn... who knew. Must be what the jeep guys do for the kids in the back seat out in the open. Always thought those would be fun.