Before anyone jumps my ***, i've searched but can't find what i'm looking for. Question 1: Where is it possible to find 10:1 pistons for a 322. I've read threads about people using Jahn's for the 401s/425s and even 364s but can't seem to track and "domed" pistons for the 322. Question 2: I have an offy 3X2, a new one. In my searching i've read that they don't flow well, but in the threads i've read i couldn't determine why, and i read that the Weiand was the choice to go with. I've already got the Offy set up, is there anything i can do to improve flow? Thanks -ace
I haven't put the intakes on a flow bench or anything, but I had both, and what i noticed was that the transition from the plenum floor of the intake, at the back runners, was so severe and sharp, that when sticking my finger down the openings on the carb base, I couldn't get my finger down into the intake port. On the Weiands, you can get your finger down there pretty easily. It's really pronounced on the 2x4 intakes. You might be able to help that a little by using a long-shanked carbide cutter and knocking the sharp edge off the roof of the runners, where they meet the plenum. On your own for pistons...it's a 4-inch bore, so if you wanted to have some made, you could save a little money by starting with a set of SBC blank forgings, but that's not going to be cheap no matter how you do it. I've also got a 322. I found a set of .060-over aftermarket pistons on Ebay a couple years ago, but don't know the manufacturer, or the compression. They're cast. Egge makes new pistons for them. From the factory, I think they used different head gaskets to moderate the compression ratio; auto trans had a slightly higher CR than the manuals. I THINK, but am not certain, that egge offers different pistons for each application (I researched this a long, long time ago), and I think what I found is that I'd want to use the ones for the Auto trans. Regardless, if you're looking for compression and performance, the '56 heads/pistons had the mose CR from the factory, and were the most powerful of the early Nails, at 255hp. You could go through all the blueprinting BS and figure out what the CR is on a set of Egge cast pistons, figure out what the thickness of your head gasket is when installed, and then mill the block and heads a bit to bump up the CR. -Brad
I would use them if you cant find a alternitive, but I got nailhead pistons from eelco. It took forever but they finally came.
Thanks guys. I've got a chilton's from '57 and you're right, Brad. there were two different compression ratios. Did not know about the head gasket though, that's interesting. Luckily mine came from a '56 wagon, which had a dynaflow. The dynaflows were like 8.9 (i think) and only 7.6 for the manuals. I never gave flow a thought on the Offy intake, or any other 3X2 for that matter, when i put that one. I'm redoing the engine this winter, so that'll be a good time to try and do a little work on the intake. With the 3 deuce setup, i'm running on the center carb, and the front and rears are dumpers. Probably good i'm not running on the rear it apprears. I'll look into the eelco pistons. i found a set on ebay some time ago that were Jahn's 12.5:1. That's a little too much for me. thanks again, if anyone finds anything, i'd appreciate it. thanks -ace
you can port the Offy to make it decent, not great, but decent... as for Eelco, do a search on here for Eelco and Northwest Speed. Then decide if you want to take the chance....
hey Zman, you seem pretty nailhead knowledgeable. i was actually going to PM you regarding the subject. Anyhow, so I take it that Eelco isn't exactly the best to deal huh... I had heard that. Do they even carry domed/high compression pistons? i looked on their website earlier and i didn't see any pistons anywhere.
Let me preface my post by saying that I only have practical experience with later nailheads (401-425), but as far as the 322 is concerned I've heard that the Weiand intake was quite a bit better than the offy. I know the later nailhead offy dual-quad intakes literally flowed worse than the stock units. Hopefully someone here has put them both on the flow bench and can offer up some numbers. Anyone? Here's an old post from the cl***ifieds so you can see a pic of the Weiand. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151565
i also had read that the "hi performance" intakes flowed worse than stock. To be honest, i can tell a difference between my 3 deuces and my 650 holley i had on there. Took it to the drag strip with both applications and my times were better with the 3 deuces. So, i'm thinking the flow isn't that bad. i think it will be better with a little work, and maybe port matching. i would be interested in seeing some numbers as well. If there are any to be found. thanks for the posts
Look around for a set of 401 rocker arms--they're aluminum, so that's less weight in the valve train versus the stock iron arms, but mainly the big deal is that they're 1.6:1 ratio, while the stockers are 1.5. That gets you a little more performance. With the 4-inch bore, you can also use Moly rings: Ford, Mopar and SBCs had 4-inch bores. The '55 322 had a factory windage tray. Don't know if it's good for any power, but it probably won't hurt. Pertronix has a conversion kit for the stock distributor. One of the guys on here sells header flanges for them, so you can fab a set of headers. Otherwise, for my '54, I'm using the '56 driver's side cast iron manifolds for a dual and single exhaust set-up: driver's side dual exhaust manifold looks like a cast iron header, dumping in the rear, with a 2.5-inch opeing. The single exhaust manifold dumps in the center, angled forward for the cross over pipe: that one is going on the p***enger side. Much cleaner looking, and also has a 2.5-inch opening. The '54 and '55 manifolds had a 2-inch or 1 7/8-inch opening, I forget which, but it was a good bit smaller. -Brad
I have a Nailhead tattoed over my heart. I am not kidding.... Brad54 is leading you down the right road. There are factory pistons that should do what you need, '56 probably being the ones you want. The bummer is that there aren't as many aftermarket parts right now for the 322 as for the later Nailheads. There are a few reputable Nailhead parts vendors out there, no need to deal with anyone that is doing a good job. I'll look this afternoon and see if I have any with 322 pistons in stock.
Thanks guys. luckily my engine is a '56 so i've got a good start. For all i know, it's never been rebuilt. BUT, maybe over the years it has been bored so i may need to end up buying oversized pistons anyhow. So the 401 rockers will fit huh? That's interesting. As far as exhaust goes, i bought 2 different sets of header flanges. one from Lakeheaders.com (normally he doesn't just sell flanges, but hey, it's all about who you know right). I made a set of Zoomies with those. I didn't like the way they looked and sounded, so i bought another set from a HAMBer and made lakes headers, and dumper pipes. I'm only ***uming i helped my horse power cause. hopefully. If not, damn it they look cool hehe. I appreciate the help guys, and Zman if you have pistons, PM me or let me know here. Thanks! Oh, here's a pic of the nailhead for good measure:
If you order pistons for any Nailhead builds from any vendor, this includes Ross and others, I would recommend NOT having valve notches installed while they're building the pistons. You'd be better served having a machine shop who's familiar with these "Nails" to flycut them as necessary. The fact that most vendor's make the notches "symmetrical" doesn't really help the end result. You're builder will see the "pre-notched" deals don't fit all that well, especially if they need more "piston-to-valve" machined in! You need the pistons to be made for a "right/left" application, NOT an "either or deal". Been there most recently!! To answer the part about "flow", I will only say this, it's a tough battle to get any decent airflow through either the intake, any intakes, OR the heads. It's a very "limited" deal unless you have some very "deep" pockets!! The unit in the photo below was destined to have some "aluminum" heads used for the build but the overall cost would have been prohibitive at the end. We did have the pair of aluminum castings in here on the "layout"!! Money-wise it had to go the "iron" route! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. Here's a very recent build with "custom" pistons inside! A real nice "old-school" build for sure!
Hi Gary, thanks for the input. You're not running a 322 in that are you? Just looking at your headers it looks like a 401? Looks killer!!! As far as builders, i'm the builder so i'll be sure to check that. however, the valves in the 322 are two different sizes. And to tell the truth, i don't even remember what a 322 piston top looks like. I don't have a machine shop, but i'm friends with an "old timer" that knows his way in and out of pretty much any engine you put in front of him. I plan to use my old valves,unless they are junked, so when i take the heads to him for head work, hopefully i'll have the pistons by that time to "match" them as you suggest. thanks! -ace
zman, youre in for a treat when you go back to get the colour. now to qualify my post as being on topic, would you be able to pick up that set of 12.5:1 pistons and machine them down a little to drop the comp, or is the piston crown too thin?
i guess that would depend on how much "meat" is on the top of the piston. I suppose in theory it's possible, but i imagine my machine shop bill would be pretty high
Hi Ace, let me clear up a couple of items here. I don't own the "ride", I only build these powerplants for them. The one in that "Henry-J" is a 426" aluminum rod deal. Car runs 11.60's at about 114 MPH. It's a 9.8:1 unit that runs fine on 93 octane. It's a hydraulic flat-tappet cam and uses SBC valves. The heads flow 225 CFM intake @ .500" lift and 145 CFM @ .500" lift also. Now back a moment to using your "original" valves. Not a real good move when your "chasing" ANY airflow numbers. You want the smallest valve stems possible "sticking" in the ports. That was the reason for using the .343" stem diameters. These allow approximately 4-5 CFM add'l in and out over the stock .375" pieces. Another "plus" to the small stems is the valves can be made "lighter" overall, which is easier for the relatively small valve springs to control. I had wanted to use Tom Telesco's roller rocker's on this build but they weren't available when we "wrapped" this one up! In the photo below if you look very closely at the valve pocket on the left side, the exhaust, you can see the larger original notch which I didn't need. I ended up machining the smaller one in a slightly different loctation than that one put there by "Ross". I had a long discussion with them "after-the-fact" and made the decision to NOT "pre-notch" ANY Nailhead pistons from that point on! It ends up altering the final C.R. some! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. I would also recommend a full set of ***anium valves for any "high-end" Nailhead unit. Possibly even using some .310" stems on this type build. This would be where the ultimate HP goal is trying to be reached. All this would be somewhat expensive however.
Okay, now that you've posted this, we need detail builds. What kind of rods. What size did you start with? (401 over bored? How much). What kind of cam, manufacturer, what'd you do to the heads, what kind of intake is that (I'm guessing you found an Edelbrock there) What'd you use for ignition, etc. etc. etc. One thing the pic there makes me think of is the thermostat housing: '53-'58 (at least...maybe later) used a housing that had the hose port in the front, like a SBC. If was angled to one side, but it came out in front, rather than straight in from the top. '53 and '54 were cast iron, and you could buy replacements from parts stores that were cast iron. '56-'58 were aluminum (I found one on a '58, don't know when they changed styles). The aluminum is often chewed up from electrolysis, but if you keep your eyes open you'll find good ones. On that Henry J, it'd be handy because you could go with a regular molded radiator hose, or at least run the "universal fit flex hose" more cleanly. They do pop up on ebay pretty frequently. -Brad
This is slightly off topic, but still pertains to nailheads. I'm sorry if I'm stepping on your thread , but I thought I might get some serious replies here. I've already learned a good deal from this thread. I have a 322 that has very few miles on the rebuild. It was replaced with a SBC because he couldn't keep harmonic balancers on it. The one that came with the engine is extremely loose. There is quite obvious that someone tried to knurl the crank snout with a center punch. Does anyone have the specs for the diameter of the crank snout? I also need another balancer. A machinist friend of mine suggested using a balancer from another brand, maybe SBC, and machining it to fit. I haven't checked it yet, but if memory serves (a rare event) the SBC is a good deal smaller. Perhaps a BBC? I would really like to use this engine, but I have to address this issue first. I'm also interested in any other info pertaining to intakes (back on topic here.) I mean, which is the best way to go with stock exhaust manifolds? 2X4, or 3X2, or is just a good 1X4 with a good carb better? Mine will be going in my Studebaker if I can get this all sorted out. I'm not going to race it (not seriously, anyway) and it is to be a kustom with the dry lakes influence. Oh yeah, one more thing...anyone got a manual bellhousing for the 322? I'd like to run a 5 speed behind it. Thanx, db
DB- from what i've gathered, the 3x2 manifolds, offy predominantly, apparently don't flow well.Weiand is supposed to be the best. With that said though, my tired old nailhead (never been rebuilt, that i know of) runs awesome with 3x2s, in fact my times at the local strip were better than with my holley 650 i had on there. Could just be a fluke. You need to decide if you want the "look" of a hot rod, or you care for performance only. Oh, i've got an article in an old Rodding and Restyling about putting a 322 in a stude. i'll see if i can track it down and scan it for you. Gary, keep in mind that i'm running a 322, not the more common 401/425 incarnation of the nailhead. My reason for running my old valves is because of the price of new. If i can find inexpensive new valves, i will buy them. same as pistons. if i could find a higher compression piston that i don't have to have specially made, i'd buy them. I'm thinking that ***anium valves would be astronomical. at least to my budget. This engine is/was a low mileage engine. I don't know the state of the internals as i haven't torn it apart, but i'm guessing they will be quite useable. I would love the ***anium, don't get me wrong! Also, this is a very streetable hot rod. I'm not looking to blow the doors of everything i run against, just a few . i drive this car all over the midwest and east coast so i 'm building this with dependability. As the car sits now, with the 3x2s, i'm running mid 14s. Now, that's not record breaking but that's pretty respectable considering i have a '39 style 3spd. toploader (52 truck, open tailshaft), i can't powershift, and i have no posi to boot. it's hot rod a kid would have had in the mid to late 50s.
Ace, I'm as much into to 'the look' as anything else, and I've always loved the look of 3-2's, especially on a well dressed nailhead. As I said, this is a kustom, so most of the time the hood won't be open when it is diplayed at a cruise-in or show, such as Paso (now Santa Maria.) Nevertheless, the hood would find it's way open from time to time, and I want it to look good when it is. I would love to see that article on dropping the 322 into the Stude. I've been trying to find info on that swap without much success til now. I take it that you can't help on the other items, ie. the balancer/crank issue, or the bellhousing? It's still up in the air whether I use the nailhead or not. If I run across the right deal on a Stude engine I will probably keep it Stude powered. BTW, I really like your sedan. That's really close to the way I would build it, given the opportunity. In fact, we've been hanging on to the nailhead for something like that in the future. Thanx. db
Well, i do know a website that sells adapters to "modern" GM transmissions, auto or manual. I had read a possiblity of taking an offy nailhead to early ford trans. adapter (like i'm using) and in turn bolting a ford to GM (like a t-5) trans to it. as far as what clutch, etc. i don't know since i've never tried it. I do know that if that would work, it's by far cheaper than the other kit. it's listed at 595.00$!! i'm on my way out to the shop to get my manual to look some specs up, i'll see if it has any info on the crank and let you know. still looking for the 'little book' with the stude/nailhead swap.
I hear ya on the $595 bellhousing. Not going there. That's more than I paid for the engine. I was thinking that if I could find an original Buick bellhousing, I may be able to redrill it and adapt a 5 speed to it. Thanx for looking for me. I'll keep an eye out for whatever you find. db
i found and scanned the Rodding and Restyling article for you. If you want i'll email it to you so i don't bog this thread down with pictures. i tried to keep it small enough to send, but big enough to read. shoot me a PM with you address.
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