A co-worker of mine is building a G-body for his son to go drag racing with. Now he's all excited about the coated Mahle pistons, various engine parts but doesn't plan on much safety wise. They're stripping the car but leaving essentials like wipers, blinkers, etc. So the other day I asked him if he was putting a roll bar or a four point cage in it? He said no. I asked what he planned on mounting the seat and harness to and he was just going to use the stock seat and mounts. He did did get a fuel cell, but it was just a plastic unit. When I asked how he planned on mounting it, he was just going to bolt it to the trunk floor. He didn't plan on running a kill switch or even having his kid wear a firesuit. I'm not bashing the guy, he just doesn't know any better and he asked me to come up with a list of suggestions to make the car a little safer. His thinking was, because the track doesn't mandate all the safety stuff on test and tune nights and they still plan on running the car on the streets it doesn't need all this extra protection. I told him he needed a roll bar with at least a set of down bars through the rear package tray and tied into the frame. He should also incorporate a horizontal bar behind the seats to mount the back of the seat to and give an anchor point to his shoulder harness. I thought a kill switch within driver's reach was a good idea. I told him to weld in two pieces of 1.5"X1.5" side to side on the rear framerails and cut a hole in the trunk floor so the fuel cell can rest on these pieces. Then run two straps over the top of the cell and tie them in front to back with the two frame pieces. I also told him that I would give his kid one of my old firesuits from my circle track days. Is this overkill on a car that's probably going to run high 12's at best? I mean, I had nice parts on my racecars but I also have a $600 Sparco suit to match. I just don't think these guys were taking the racing business too seriously. Is there anything else they should consider before heading to the track? Are my ideas too much or idiotic? I know nothing about drag racing, so I don't know if you guys do anything else to make your average street/strip car a little more safe?
A GOOD currently-rated helmet, & a good safety harness. An external battery switch is also a good idea, positioned in the usual place so the track guys can find it....and, if using electric fuel pumps, an oil pressure cutoff switch...a good catch can...nothin' like running over your own antifreeze (or water) at 120 mph... Safety equipment is still cheaper than major medical bills & time off of work.
In my experience people with circle track backgrounds do tend to overbuild a drag car. That being said (and please don't take that personally Lucky) I would never send ANYBODY I know down the track in a car I felt was unsafe. You don't have to look too far at just about any local track to find some really ratty rides(safetywise), myself included in my younger and more indestructable days. I myself don't believe that a high 12 sec. car @ less than say 110mph really needs a roll bar and fire suit,plus I really question the safety of driving on the street with a roll bar and no helmet. Modifications to the fuel system beg for some restraint. At minimum a firewall between the fuel cell and p*** compartment,proper rollover vent and proper grounding. Then again it seems like the stock tank,with the possibility of larger fuel lines would be fine for what they're trying to do. Anyhow my $.02
Most of the safety rules relate to elapsed time, speed, and modifications to the car that would impact its structural integrity. In NHRA roll bar is not mandatory in a full bodied enclosed car until an elapsed time of 11.49 is reached. I'll jump on the "get a rule book" bandwagon. It will save much anguish.
I'll second the opinion for buying him a rule book. Sometimes, things like an improperly mounted fuel cell,may be more dangerous,than the stock tank. That may also change the requirment for a firesuit. I witnessed an incident a few years back,where a car that only ran 13's,therefore didn't require some of the safety parts like a transmission shield. When the transmission(Mopar 727) exploded ,one of the bands straightened out and went through the floor,the drivers foot,then the roof.Safety equipment is for "YOUR PROTECTION" not just because the rules require it. Buy the best helmet you can,rather than, "the least you can get away with",for the rules. It's your head. I've spent the last 25 years as crew on some very dangerous race vehicles.(Top Alcohol Hydro,T/A Funny car,T/Fuel Harley)You learn that "personal safety" is always first priority. Accidents happen,but they are less of a risk if you are prepared. Then they don't ruin the chances for future fun.
No offence taken Ramblur, yeah I had (and still have) a terrible fear of being trapped in a burning compe***ion vehicle of some sort. I just thought of something letting loose and a 25+ year old metric framed, Michigan car backing into the fence at 100 mph. If that fuel cell was just bolted to the sheetmetal floor in the trunk, I don't know if it could withstand the impact without coming loose. I'll see the guy tomorrow and ask if he has a rule book. At the very least I'm still giving the kid my old firesuit. Thanks for the info fellas, if anyone has any more suggestions I'm all ears
Tell him to have fun and do what he feels comfortable with! With any luck, that kid won't have the opportunity to reproduce like his dumb **** father did! Darwinism is good for the universe. Seriously though, talk to the kid, and if you feel very generous, buy him and NHRA rule book. My father was a ****ing idiot, but I turned out to be a smart mother****er, and I feel no need to possibly **** the gene pool by p***ing on his cowardly pre-depositions. It's a **** shoot, and even my smart *** can't figure out those odds. I say, let them get thrown off the track on their second trip. Fudge, 'em, fudge 'em up the ***!
C-clip elimitnatiors if he's using the GM rear end, i've seen 14 second cars loose an axle and its not pretty. Check with the track he plans on running at, most go by NHRA or IHRA rules. some or most don't tech the cars on test and tune nights. 4 to 500 hp(gessing) in a stock ch***ie isn't going to be fun when the breakage starts rearend drive shaft transmissions so on. Nothing beats a solid safe racecar ch***ie. than start throwing more motor at it
if the track they are going to run at has any kind of tech in ....they will let him know what all he needs..... firewall between the cell and driver ....grounding the cell ....covering the open holes in the firewall.....gobs of hp and torque are cool.....til they change that 7.5 rear.....they are just waiting for something to break..... if they have done any kind of research on the car and have the i/c deal setup on the car ...they will break something...at least make sure they have a neutral start switch..... brandon
A fire extinguisher mounted within easy reach of a strapped in driver! And try to talk some sense into both father and son. Roger
some excellent points have already been made and i agree get a rule book for them it would make a great christmas gift and you will have the knowledge you at lest tried to make their drag racing experiance safer..
I am very familiar with building bracket type drag cars.The rule book is a good idea,but don't expect it to tell you everything.The car @ high 12's will probably be closer to 95 M.P.H.I don't think at that power level axle breakage will be an issue. He can't run a harness correctly without a roll bar.By the way ,lots of legal Stock eliminater cars do not run roll bars and they are running under 11.49. Are they unsafe? As far as the fuel cell goes why even run one,the stock tank is very adequate to sustain 500 H.P. It seems to me that a ton of cars are starting to be built like this every year.Most do not ever hit the track and are sold for a great loss. Wait, thats what I do ,buy up abandon projects and finish or parts them out. Most of this stuff is just not needed to run high 12's.If safety is a big enough issue that you need to wear a fire suit to drive a 12 second car you probably should stay in the grandstands.I mean how many of you have had your street car up to 95 mph and did you have a roll bar and fireproof suit. Oh and toe straps do not function well with a cable throttle. This is just my opinion though,but when he gets all this stuff on the car and gets tired of it call me I'll buy it.
actually.....a 13 or 14 second car can very easily break a axle in a 7.5.....depending on the tires and how hard you come out of the water.... and the stock posi's are pretty much junk at best .....i broke a gov lok pulling into my driveway.....i went dana 60....and never had any trouble ....well except for puking the motor.... brandon
If they're really concentrating on building a super strong small block then they may be suprised of what kind of HP and ET's it's capable of... and they may dip into the low 11's with the right setup (considering they're stripping the car of everything... My thoughts: - First - once the bug hits whatever they run will get boring and out comes the giggle gas or a bigger motor follows... That said here's what I'd suggest: - Seal up firewall and sheetmetal firewall between p***enger compartment and trunk. - Rollover valve and vent on cell to outside - secure mounting is a must - but like the others said - they're probably better off just running the stock tank. If they want to run the cell I'd follow the circle track rules - cut the floor around it and drop it down between the rails, use box tubing and weld it to the frame, create a "cage" for the cell and use an 18ga or thicker sheetmetal bottm skid at the minimum and use 1.5" wide straps of .110" steel to hold it in. - ***uming the battery is relocated a cutoff switch outside is mandatory as I recall - Driveshaft safety loop - Since it's stripped - just go right for the 8-point roll cage "kit" and don't put the front kicker bars in until they hit mid 11's. (if they're keeping it 'street legal') - Safety gear - at least a jacket, jeans, leather shoes, gloves and an SA rated helmet (check out the c/t mag where they lit the "M" rated helmet that most tracks allow on fire... you'll be getting an SA one for sure...) Really that's about it - I'd say if they're running DRAG radials or slicks then the rear needs to be looked at - but if they're just running some hard 'street' tires then it's a reasonable risk that I'd be willing to gamble on - that is until the slicks or speeds approach the low 100's...
There are alot of great comments here. The reality is, everyone wants to go quick, but not everyone wants to add all of the safety equipment if they are going to be driving primarily on the street. I can dig that. When I'm tech-inspecting at the track, I see alot of peeps with 12 or 13 second cars who have fuel cells in the back with no metal bulkhead, relocated batteries with no cutoff switches, mechanical oil pressure gauges with plastic lines, etc. I'm always respectful of the fact that guys want to sound quick, look quick and have all the neat goodies, even if their cars really aren't all that quick. But, I also respectfully tell them that when you put a fuel cell in the back of a 13 second car, you might not be going fast, but you're thinking about it. And in an accident (on the street or at the track), fuel spilling out of a ruptured plastic cell is no fun, especially if you don't have a metal bulkhead to slow the fuel from getting all over you. So, even if you're not all that quick, if you decide to go for that go-fast look, you should be in tune with the basic safety rules. Does that mean I'd recommend a roll bar for a high-12 second street coupe? No. But I would recommend a driveshaft safety loop. I always recommend that people get the $10 rulebook, so that they at least can begin to understand the seriousness of making even minor mods to the car. Even if you're not planning to go to the track, understanding the basic rules is a nice place to start. If you are taking the car to the track, following the rules for your ET is necessary, at least for most tracks that care about their racers. Hank
What Hank said. Also: Maybe go to the track and have him take some notes in the pits of how more experienced racers have done things? Maybe find a mentor in the process. It might be worth it to haul the car to the track before it's totally completed just so the track tech guy can have a look and make some suggestions... that way he won't show up expecting to race only to get his ego bruised when Tech starts saying No...No...No... to various systems/controls... my experience is that the tech guys are very supportive and he'll walk away feeling good about the whole deal, rather than cursing some anonymous organization that wrote the rulebook.
I work at a track and I can tell you that drivers are only allowed to to run up to the level of the safety equipment in the car. You can get away with it once, running under 11.50, without a bar and harness, but one more quick p*** and your done for the nite. Also, many drivers don't realize that an aftermarket blower, turbo or juice requires the driver to have a fire jacket. The track crew looks at each car in the waterbox and checks for the proper equipment. Violators are called to the tower and told to get in compliance before they come back or don't come back.
Great info and responses guys, thanks a lot. I thought the roll bar was a no brainer, but I guess not. I know they did get the C-clip eliminators and they're running a 8.5" rear end. The driveshaft loop is an excellent idea. Don't know why I didn't think of it, I have two of them in my sedan They already have the gas tank out, I'll try and give them a hand with the fuel cell. At least I have a little experience with that stuff. I'll make sure there's a completely sealed firewall too. Well if you fellas think of anything else, let me know. Thanks, Scott.
to me, it sounds like the guy wants to get rid of his kid while the car may not "need" a cage to be legal, they do "twist up" with some hook. popped the windshield on a 66 chevelle once.... not just a 6 pt but at least an 8. might weigh more but the car'll be more consistant if not quicker (that'd be a good selling point to 'em) but you're gonne be buying a harness every couple of years....
Scott, helping out the new racers requires some patience, but it sounds like you have your heart in it. Good luck. Hank
i drive a '32 austin/bantam altered with a flatty in it every other month in a nostalgia series. i can tell you although my car is only a mid 15's car i feel very safe in it. i built my car about 12 years ago and i don't think it has changed, but they didn't care if it's an altered with a flatty or blown fuel chyrsler, it was built the same way. i understand everybodies thoughts on the roll bar, but my car only goes 83 mph and i can tell you, i am glad i have a full roll cage. i know everybody thinks that doorslammers are safer because they have .063 thick metal between the drivers head and the pavement and the windows, but when that car blows a tire or brakes an a-arm and hits the wall at 50-90 mph, that **** don't mean much. as far as the street thing goes, that is about the dumbess thing i can think of when building a race car. on the one hand, you got a noisy, hot, terrible riding street car and on the other you got a half *** race car. you are much better off building it as a full race car and put everything in it for safety. it's your *** that's going to the hospital, why not give yourself every advantage to come out with no injuries. besides why not put everything in it for safety? do you think it will slow it down or what. i could understand someone who has a cool a bone or forty or some other kind of traditional hot rod and doesn't want to add all this, his is more of a street car than a race car, but what are these guys looking for, to be able to drive to the local cruise and get their ego's stroked by the other wannabes? i just don't get i guess.
Roll bar? Hell guys, the last high 12 second car I built has a roll bar AND a fire supression system. I am not into the idea of killing anyone with a car I built. and figure it like this. The safer the car, the better chance you have of living in ANY accident. So it won't be a rocket ship. it may never end up on it's roof. (that would be pretty rare, all things considered.) But, if an f350 t-bones it...Yeah. I will take mine in Black, Please.
*********************************************** and right there is the best arguement in favor of a cage, no matter how slow the car. There's a whole lot of fumbduckers out there with licenses, and you never can tell.......... Roger
one other deal with the roll bar.....if they use those plastic seats....you really need something to help support them.....nutserts only hold so much.... brandon
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