Ok maybe a dumb question but I know now quite a few people are spoiled and go with a typical C4 or 350 style tranny. The question I pose is what was really used for higher performance engines (think 50's when high performance wasn't to extreme) for transmission ? I can't imagine other than stock what most "hot rodder's" in that time frame would have been using other than the stock tranny and rear end ? Especially with all the torque tubes....? Enlighten the heavy one please....
I have heard the GM hydromatics from the 50s were the cat's ass. I think the norm was to snag a tranny from something huge, like a Lincoln, Caddy, Olds. If it was strong enough to take the torque that those engines dealt out and tote around 4200 lbs, it would most likely take the same beating in your 2000 lb Hot Rod.
Most guys in the early days ran a '39 ford box with lincoln zephyr gears to get a better ratio. The Packard box was good as well as the unbreakable Cadillac Lasalle toploader. The Cad-Lasalle was used alot in drag cars early on. The 4-speed Hydromatic was introduced in 1949 I believe, and it was a heavy brute of a thing but tough as nails. Guys would send them down to B&M to be beefed up for racing, and there wasn't too many old gassers that didn't use this unit at one time or another. You could get the pumps out of Cadillac hearse or ambulance tranny's to beef 'em up for the street. The Cats ass though is still an early full synchro 4-speed like a ford toploader or a borg-warner t-10, or a Muncie M-21 or M-22. They are nostalgic but they work and don't weigh 4000 lbs. Buick dynaflows are dynosaurs, slim-jims are junk, and old Ford boxes are second gear nightmares unless you put 'em behind a flathead. <font color="black"> </font>
The early GM Hydramatic came out as early as '39 believe it or not. The first ones had a clutch on them too. But they kept evolving a little. The only ones suitable for hotrodding are the '52-up dual range units. Even then, some are better suited than others (Linc and Cad units were excessivly heavy due to a two foot long output, and I've seen strange couplings on a Nash unit for instance).
The most desired upgrade was always the Cad-LaSalle, but it was always in short supply due to demand from drag racers. This box could be fairly easily adapted to Ford trans mount/torque tube coupling. The early 60's-late fifties Petersen tech books had good comparisons and building tips for strog trans, including Packard and one made from a heap of different year Buick and olds parts to get floorshift and good gears. The four speeds (first available on '57 Vette) were immediately the hot setup, but were scarce and expensive until well into the musclecar era. The BW T 85, used in some Lincolns and many Ford police/HD setups as well as other obscure uses was moderately popular too. The T-85 was the basis for the T-10 four speed, by the way. the BW and Packard were commonly overdrives, too. Someone REALLY needs to reprint those Petersen books, the big ones and the Spotlites. Taken together, they are practically an advanced degree course in traditional rodding and customizing, with texts by people like Don Francisco and Barris. I bought all I could afford when I was about 12, and am still looking for more.
[ QUOTE ] Most guys in the early days ran a '39 ford box with lincoln zephyr gears to get a better ratio. The Packard box was good as well as the unbreakable Cadillac Lasalle toploader. The Cad-Lasalle was used alot in drag cars early on. The 4-speed Hydromatic was introduced in 1949 I believe, and it was a heavy brute of a thing but tough as nails. Guys would send them down to B&M to be beefed up for racing, and there wasn't too many old gassers that didn't use this unit at one time or another. You could get the pumps out of Cadillac hearse or ambulance tranny's to beef 'em up for the street. The Cats ass though is still an early full synchro 4-speed like a ford toploader or a borg-warner t-10, or a Muncie M-21 or M-22. They are nostalgic but they work and don't weigh 4000 lbs. Buick dynaflows are dynosaurs, slim-jims are junk, and old Ford boxes are second gear nightmares unless you put 'em behind a flathead. <font color="black"> </font> [/ QUOTE ] between this and Blown Olds addition that pretty much nails it. automatic just weren't accepted as race fodder till the dual range hydro. and then you only saw a few, mostly in oldsmobiles. the first conversion that I can remember (and I can't remember his name) was a 54 ford with a lincoln and a hydro that was a pretty strong runner. it had a Rooster painted on its quarter panels with its legs going so fast it looked like it was burning rubber and it said "CHICKEN SHIFT" really nice black coupe.that was about 1956. I suspect that most of the early builds on hydromatics were done trying to improve on performance after they were stuck into something. I know my 374 Packard powered 51 olds 88 club coupe was certainly one of the first hydros (before B&M was popular) with a 3000 stall and it was accomplished with a pair of vise grips bending each vane in the torus wheel to allow low rpm slippage. it was done by Kenny Myers who is still doing transmissions somewhere in Calif, He probably still has my collection of Rod Magazines that I sold for 35 bucks when I went into the navy dammit
Often overlooked is the 3spd and 3 spd OD from early V8 era Chev as well as Studebakers. Packards and Cad/LaSalle are outta sight but the 37-38 large series Buicks still show and there were several old articles of adapting them to open drive. Another strong box is the 9 bolt top cover 61-4 Y Block era 3spd built by Ford. These were in everything from 6 bangers thru Y Block cop cars and taxis. Also found in vans and p/u.
Good stuff there Bruce, there were plenty of adapters out there for about everything you could find in a junk yard. it was common to build your own adapter in the early 50's but by the late 50's early 60's you could buy adapters for just any thing. hurst mounts, the first one I bought cost me over a weeks pay for 3 dollars worth of steel and I felt stupid for buying it but I kept it anyway. and all the cheap floor shifters put an end for the need of top shifters. my 56 ford had so many holes cut in the floor from so many trans changes even took a hack saw and razor knife to the seat for clearance. I just left them because they were handy to drop quart beer bottles out when we got pulled over by the Fuzz (which was quite often) speaking of that. quarts were the only way to drink Beer back then 35-50 cents a quart. cans were a pain in the ass (with church keys) before pulltops and push tops, and there wasn't a car around that didn't have a bottle opener screwed under the dash somewhere
now I am even more curious...I still am waiting for my book to arrive at the book store about early 50's chevy, gmc, and buick performance so I can read more as to what was recomended in '54 when the book was first published. hmm...should be a good book.
One thing that's not being mentioned here is that current engine and chassis traction science (if you apply it) allows for a lot more breakage of those oldtime manual transmissions. This is the reason the B&M hydro became so popular in the early '60's, it's because at that time, there were no stick trannies that were capable of holding up in supercharged gassers etc. They had surpassed the limit of the old stick trannies that ued to hold up in the 50's just fine. So if you are planning on using an old-time stick tranny, treat it gingerly if you built your engine. I know a guy that got so tired of searching for Zephyr gears for his Ford tranny every time he shattered another set that he went to a late Muncie 4-spd.
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