TIG welding...I suck, but have an opportunity, so can you help me out???

We make molds and casting equipment for the aluminum industry.

 

Do you mean by welding them together, or by laying a bead on them???? Or were you being sarcastic?????

 

you think you are bad at tig? i bought my first tig welder 17 years ago and i still think i **** at it

tig welding is an art

with practice you will be better , but never master it

those guys who weld parts for pete & jakes must be gods

 

Thanks for the moral boost "36"!!! I don't ever expect to master it, just want to make my company proud!!!
Here is another question for you all...... Is there a difference/technique between TIG welding ALUMINUM, compared to TIG welding STEEL?????? If I get good at welding up aluminum, does that mean I can TIG up some headers, body panels, body trim, etc. or is EACH one a "seprate" --can of worms-- ?????

 

I work in the Biofuel industry as a fabricator and deal mostly with stainless preasure vessels and pipe. I had little tig experience until about two years ago and am learning slowly. When i was showed how to weld up a **** joint in pipe I was told to "walk the cup" that means to actually lay the edge of the cup (nozzle) down when you strike the arc and push your weld while rolling your wrist back and forth roling the cup on the material to help keep it steady and holding your puddle even. It is not the easiest thing to get used to but man does in make for a great looking weld once you get the hang of it. I am not sure if this will work for your application but its worth a shot.

 

Welding steel and stainless is MUCH easier than welding Aluminum. If you are unfamiliar with TIG, practice first with steel then step up to Aluminum once you have a grasp of the fundamentals. You don't learn to play guitar by trying to teach yourself "Eruption".

Seriously, machine settings are half the battle. Once you get that dialed in, it makes life easier ten fold. Too hot and you're going to burn through stuff or move faster than your ready for. Too cold and you'll have lousy penetration and filler rod build-up. Finding your sweet spot on the machine comes with practice and experience.

I've taught many people to TIG weld. I start every lesson to newbs by making them draw squigly lines, basically a repeating "O" that half over laps the next. This is a similar motion you'll want to replicate with the torch. You'll find that it will help move your puddle and get that roll of dimes looks. Be easy. I've found that girls have an easier time picking up TIG than guys. They tend to have a lighter touch, and TIG is all about finesse.

Keep your hands steady. Sometimes if i'm in a weird spot i'll use a pair of vice grip clamps as a hand rest. You need to keep the tungsten really close to puddle, so steady hands will be the difference between a nice weld and boogered up tungsten.

I'm right handed. I hold the torch in my right hand, filler in my left, and I like to move right to left when I can. This way I'm not adding filler across the area I just welded.

Above all, practice. It's just repe***ive motion. You'll eventually get the knack of when you're too hot or cold, if you're moving too fast or too slow, and where you need more or less filler. I know it' a cliche, but if you can't weld good, weld a lot

 

I've been welding for a couple years now. the main thing is being comfortable. Im fairly ambidextrous, but i hold the rod in my left hand. i lay the "gun" at about a 60-70 degree angle from my right side and push through. I start on the ride side and work my way left. the rod shouldnt really meet the arc or puddle it should more or less drop in. practice is key. a good puddle will turn the aluminum into a mirror finish (best way to describe it). at this point start dabbing the rod in. it takes some practice to learn how often to dab the rod but you'll find your sweet spot. Each dab will form a "dime" in the row. if you get the chance start on thinner aluminum and work your way up. this will help you with penetration and learning how to adjust.

Practice is key though. its been said before but if its not turning out right keep working on it. dont get bummed.

 

Most guys on here are TIG welding steel like me and not aluminum. But no one has mentioned the most important thing about TIGing aluminum.
Clean
Aluminum oxidizes within minutes. If you are getting an unstable arc, you may need to try cleaning. Guys that weld alum all the time keep a wire brush handy. You can clean the metal perfectly and go take a 15 minute break, the metal is already oxidizing.
Use this brush only on the aluminum so it does not get contaminated. Try cleaning the weld area about an inch on each side right before striking the arc. I think that may help.
Just my 2 cents, Im not an expert, I weld mostly mild and stainless.
Bob

 

You do see a pattern here, right? Get comfortable, hands, shield, gun, lighting, all of it. One thing I didn't see anyone mention is the "rythm" of welding aluminum. Alum. is way faster than steel. FWIW I find it easier than steel and wish I did it more often. "Rythm?" "WTF do you mean?" Think about it...the sounds, the actions, the time needed to get to know when to back off the pedal a bit now that part is nice and hot.

Some things tthat work for me...

remember you're the "driver" working the pedal. Give it what it needs and no more, back off when you "get up to speed" just like a car...

if you start out really light, just enough to get that unstable arc, then like having an egg between your foot and the pedal, give it a lil more 'til the arc get's stable and the metal gets a bit discolored, then a bit more until you see just a few "wet spots" comming up from the discolored metals you're almost there...

there's a lot going on at the joint/weld, but you need to trust the process and ONLY LOOK AT THE JOINT/PUDDLE. One of the most common problems is getting focused on the joint and the weld. Not looking at the arc, the wire, the torch position, the parts, or anything else...

learn to add the wire the best way for your style and trust your intuition that you're putting the filler where it goes, AUTOMATICALLY. You don't need to see where it's coming from, you already know that so quit looking at it and focus your attention on the puddle...

develop a rythm of wet-fill-move that suits you. It's sometimes possible to "work" the pedal for more control of the finished product, although some seasoned weldors say it isn't needed. May be true but in some cases more pedal as you fill helps give you rythm and control of the finished look you're after. Hard to put to words, but I think a few here get my meaning.

And, like it or not, practice makes perfect. As similar as the tig process is an all metals, you might need to change your hat in a manner of speaking to get around the concepts of aluminum welding. It's fast, really hot, really bright, it will lie to you at times, it's fast, and the whole part gets hot faster than anything else. Did I say it's fast? It is. Twice the speed of steel (in most cases, same thickness).

Last thing I can offer is that the torch is usually farther away from the weld than steel and that's a hard habit to break. That's when you get to bangin the rod into the tungsten and messin up your gig. Remember, you're driving. If it's outta control, stop. In many cases a stop and a restart/fix is all you need before the weld turns in to a mess. Good luck and get out there and practice.

 

HIGHLANDER, that is the best explanation I've read anywhere! Thank you.

 

i am no expert by any strech and if this has already been mentioned sorry for the repeat but a buddy of mine was just showing me this this week ,one of the big problems was feeding the rod with left hand because im right handed duh!,some hold it like a pencil and when you place it your bead looks ok for a few motions then you have to readjust the rod in your hand and at that point plop there goes anasty blob and it takes away from the nice clean bead, what he does and it seems to work well is he holds the rod between his pointer finger and his middle finger and constantly feeds it with his thumb alot like a caulk gun if you can picture it,alows a nice smooth run,good luck with the job

 

1: get comfortable
a: if you are a righty you weld from right to left. Tourch in right hand and filler rod in left.

2: make sure that your machine is set correctly
a: always on AC
b: machine should have a "pulse" or "cleaning action" setting.
c: rounded 2% thorium tungsten electrode. (prob 3/32 for 1/8'' plate)
d: argon set for 12-15 fpm flow
e: good ground, either clamp on the plates or the table (if table is conductive AND clean)
f: 4043 filler rod is best

3: remember that if you are weldin a large plate that when you start the plate will be cool so you will need a little more petal even of you are near the edge. Get a puddle going (wet, shiney). You will want the torch pointing at plate almost at a 90 degree angle. Once you have the puddle going dab the filler rod in the puddle to build up material. DO NOT pull the filler rod out of the argon purge. ONLY pull the filler rod far enough away from the arc so it is out of the way of the electrode and puddle. IF you pull the filler rod out of the path of the argon the filler rod will be contaminated and you will need to cut the end with snips before you put the rod back into the puddle!

4: remember that when you get into the middle of the plate you will need to have the heat knob on the machine set up high enough so you can boost up the amps. The heat will disburst much easier so it will start running cold and will be hard to keep the puddle going. But when you get towards the end of the plate dont be afraid to back way off if you feel that you have to because the plate will be hot!
5: And remember that if you put the elecrtode on the puddle to do yourself a favor and regrind it.

GOOD LUCK

 

Trust the H.A.M.B. to have the expertise to help you learn the techniques you need to do it right!

Thanks guys! Lots of great information. I printed this out to save for when I get my own TIG and start learning.

Thanks again.

 

It depends on how big the piece of aluminum is. If the peice of aluminum is large than it will take longer to get hot. And if a piece is cold it will be hard to control a puddle. Once that piece gets hot, or is already hot (say from a acetalene torch prior to welding) it will be easier to control a puddle.

So i guess, YES you have to give more heat with the pedal UNTIL it reaches a hot enough temperature where you can back off that pedal.

When you weld aluminum you are definitley moving the pedal back and forth alot more than if you were welding mild or stainless steel.

Hope that makes sense.

 

here is something i found online

Here is an exercise to practice when not welding.

Level 1

Take a 3/8" steel washer.
Place it on a piece of white paper.
Take a nice sharp pencil.
Place the tip of the pencil against the paper inside the washer.
Now start swirling the pencil tip around the inside of the washer to
draw a circle on the paper.
Keep circling the inside of the washer, while nudging the washer across
the paper.
Try to end up with the washer traveling in a straight line across the
paper.
You should end up with a long swirl pattern across the page.
Keep practicing until the swirl pattern is even and in a straight line.

Level 2

Same setup, with one change.
Once again slide the washer across the page while swirling the pencil
tip around the inside of the
washer, but now DON"T touch the paper with the pencil tip.
This means being able to hold the tip of the pencil within a 1/16" of
the paper without touching it
and without lifting out of the washer.

Level 3

Do Level 2 while standing next to the table without any part of your
arm resting on the table.

Level 4

Move to a 1/4" washer.


This exercise comes from a welding textbook from 1929, and it still
works quite nicely to train your
muscles for floating the torch.

 

Well said, a few tips i have lerned .Clean your filler rod with acetone and wipe down your work to remove any oil your hands may leave.Pre heat your work when it is thick,alluminum holds alot of condensation and water is a oxidiser.Just what your looking to avoid when welding alluminum.Yes it disapates as the work piece gets hot,but the first part of the weld is as important as the last.Rule at thumb,use a tungston and filler rod as close to material thickness as possible.You can deviate but do this when you get more comfortable.I use 2% for steel and pure for alluminum.There are some hybreads of tungston but im stuck in old ways after 18 years.When im home, i try to use my left hand for eating at the table(im right handed) to try to improve my dexterity,you will find out how ******* you are when you try this.It will also help when you go out to dinner with a large group so it dosent matter where you sit.Hold the torch as close to 90 degrese as you can and keep that filler rod in that sheilding gas.Oh yea try to use the collets with the screen,thay give a larger area for sheilding(Gas lens type).The rest is up to you......Good luck....................Its nice to see people with some p***ion for there jobs.....Gary

 

Most people I've seen put far too much emphasis on moving the torch in those swirl patterns when they start out. Until you are decent at tig welding the only thing that will do is make you nervous and frustrated. When you are new you need to move the torch around to find out how its movement moves the puddle. When I quit trying to swirl the torch my welding picked up 100%. Work on that after you've mastered the other parts.

Also, you want to stab the filler rod in and out of the puddle, not let it hang around to mess things up. get it in quickly when you need it and out quickly. David

 

the tourch is held in the hand you write with,you should be able to fusion weld your name for practice,tig welding is all in the tourch hand,keep the tungsten close to the plate ,also try to point the tourch straight down with just a slight push angle unlike steel you want as much heat into the weld zone as possable this and the proper amount of heat will prevent the tails,another thing you notice when tiging alum. if the machine dosent have pulse every time you push the wire into the puddle your foot should back off on the heat a little this lets you put in a fill drop of wire then back on the heat this will give you good penatration and weld size,also the last 3/4 of the weld is the hotest point so watch your pudle,and also some thing they dont tell you if you arc out do not inhale the fumes poison ,the best way to practice fedding wire is sit watching tv at nite and play with a lenth of tig wire,ive done it for 15 years their is nothing as relaxing as the sound of tig welding alum. hope this helps

 

There are two things in life where penetration is really important.....and one of them is welding.

 

I didn't read all 50+ posts, but I remember seeing a gadget that you put your filler rod in, and you squeeze a trigger to advance it into the puddle. May help.

 

Swirling a torch is only needed if you have a joint that is too wide.
A good **** joint doesnt need swirled.
Seriously..if your heats right and technique is right. You simply move your torch in a straight path and adjust the heat with the pedal. If you have to adjust your heat with the pedal too often you are not using the correct techniques. The best welder adjusts the heat so the pedal is fully depressed throughout the weld. Otherwise you will be constantly giving various amounts when trying to hold your foot still.
All the fancy torch movement will do is cause oxygen and impurities to enter the molten weld.
Again. I stress the rod application. Remember to try to apply it by shoving it into the heat with your fingertips not your arm movement.
A good tig and oxy welder has this down pat.

 

Are you getting a raise, too? Material wealth is the most important thing there is.

 

UPDATE....
I didn't mention this (because I forgot...) ALL my welding will be VERTICLE!!!! From the top of the piece 3.5" up to 4.5" down to the bottom of the piece. Example meaning, plate is 1/8" thick, and 3-4"'s tall. I practiced today after work for about 2 1/2 hours on a piece of aluminum (actually several of them) -----FLAT laying down on the work table-----!! In that position I have the technice, tungsten, heat, swirl, speed, ALL down!!! in that position it is actually fairly easy for me, I just need to put all those skills into a verticle pattern for what I will be doing! ALSO, the welder I have has SO MANY KNOBS, DIALS, and SWITCHES it is overwhelming!!!The guy teaching me does NOT use ANY of the other features that are there so he can't help me with them,(he has NO idea what they do) but I was "experimenting" with some of them today... There is a "pulse" feature, that has a ...-quan***y- of pulses, a -duration- of pulses, and a -background frequency-, and while experimenting with this feature I can "CHEAT" and have an +++ABSOLUTLY PERFECT row of dimes LOOK+++++ by adjusting the knobs! What the hell am I doing by messing with that feature????? Anyways, guys THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all the advice!! I have read, and RE-read all the posts ,-->ALL OF THEM to get help, hints, and ideas, for my "new" skill and I truly appreciate it!!!! By the way NO I don't get a raise in pay as I VOLUNTERED to take on this job because I TOLD them that if I was able to take that position and learn to TIG weld, that would be worth NOT getting a pay raise to me!!! You may not understand that, but where the hell else could I get PAID to learn something that I WANT TO DO, AND enjoy????...Thanks again, Ken

 

Its funny cause what Highlander said is true.
Tigging reminds me of playing the drums.
TP

 

The pulse feature is used typically not to get any type of "look".
Anytime and I mean anytime you vary the heat in the middle of any type of weld you are taking chances. Swirling...pulsing...or adjusting a foot pedal.
By chances I mean you could introduce containiments, oxygen, dirt etc.
Maintaining a heat and not moving a torch keeps the flame and heated shield aalways above and at the right temp to keep it clean. Coldshut or coldlap.
The pulse feature is used for welding thin material. It is designed to reduced warping and burn through on thin materials. It provides a smaller heat affected zone.
I used this extensively when I was welding chop tops of car hauler cabs for Volvo. You could actually weld the seam this way without any rod introduced at all. Its great for sheetmetal. Wish I had one at home.
Welding downhill...
Be careful here. Due to production demands we are force to weld downhill in the shops of America. But the problem is it will cause cold lap and no fusion and possibly trap slag and inclusions. A proper speed and heat can prevent these issues.

 

Vertical Tig Wedling: Since I'm a newbie, I've welded primarily on horizontal planes . . . very little vertical. Most of my welding is on steel -- thick and thin. Are there any cases where one would prefer to weld "downhill" versus uphill"? It would seem that welding uphill would easily lead to a much larger weld/bead area . . . potentially with things getting too thick.

School us on this one . . . before I get into the "bubble gum" business

 

This has been a great thread... lots of good advice. I'm a better TIG welder as a result. Thank you all who took the time to post.

 

Me tooo, thanks everybody.

 

Tig welding is the most controlled welding process I know of.
Quality wise..Welding down hill is best for thin materials. Common sense tells us the faster we can weld in any given area on thin material the better. I used to weld the stainless steel skins on tractor trailer tankers. Thin as hell ****... At the back end it was a large pressed piece the was fitted tightly against the stainless wrap at the sides. I didn't even pick up a welding wire. I would start a the top and
weld down hill with a pulse walking down the ladder at the same time. No brag here. My bad eyes wouldn't allow this anymore. When finish you didnt grind. It only needed polished.
Welding up hill....
On thicker material when its important to get good penetration and wash out the impurities of the joint when fusing its important to go up hill. Common sense here tells us that gravity drops the impuritees behind the molten puddle. When welding any process. The only way to get an xray quality job is to weld up hill. Down hill traps impurities and causes cold lap.
Thicker weld up hill??? Not when you are in control of your heat and travel.

 

Thanks a bunch! Great explanation of the details -- I would not have thought about the impurities at all. This has been a GREAT thread, I've learned a bunch from all the discussions.