351C 2V to 4V head advise needed

<CENTER><TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 height=977 cellSpacing=0 borderColorDark=#c0c0c0 cellPadding=2 width=743 bgColor=#cccccc borderColorLight=#ffffff border=10><CAPTION>[SIZE=+1]Revhead was kind enough to give me this chart and i figured out that the 351 C im going to build is a 2v and I want some 4v heads so i can use the edelbrock torker i bought. Does anyone have any suggestions on which heads would be good for a mild street engine in my shoebox. Also i'd like them to be something i can get at the local yard for a reasonable price instead of the Ausy heads(which would be nice but im poor). Thanks[/SIZE]



[SIZE=+1]Head Specification Comparisons[/SIZE]

</CAPTION><TBODY><TR bgColor=#000066><TD width=163 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Engine[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD width=86 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Carb.[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD width=72 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Chamber[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Vol.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
</TD><TD width=88 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Intake[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Valve Dia.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
</TD><TD width=64 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Exhaust[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Valve Dia.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
</TD><TD width=98 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Intake[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Port Dia.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
</TD><TD width=118 bgColor=#000066 height=60><CENTER>[SIZE=+1]Exhaust[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Port Dia.[/SIZE]</CENTER>
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=163 bgColor=#808080 height=19>289

</TD><TD width=86 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD><TD width=72 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD><TD width=88 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD><TD width=64 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD><TD width=98 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD><TD width=118 bgColor=#808080 height=19>

</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1963</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V</TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>53.5 cc</TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.67"</TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45"</TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94"x1.04"</TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24"x0.96"</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1963 Hi-Perf</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>4V</TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>49.2 cc</TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.67" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1964-66

</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V

</TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>53.5 cc

</TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78"

</TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45"

</TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04"

</TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96"

</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1967</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>53.5 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 1.00" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1968</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>63 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 1.00" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1964-67 Hi-Perf</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>53.5 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080 height=19>302</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080 height=19></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1968</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>63 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1969-76</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>58.2 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1977-84</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>69 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1968 Hi-Perf</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>53.5 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1969 Boss</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>63 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>2.23" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.71" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>2.50 x 1.74" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>2.00 x 1.74" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1970 Boss</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>58 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>2.19" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.71" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>2.50 x 1.74" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>2.00 x 1.74" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080 height=20>351 Windsor

</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080 height=20>

</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1969 Hi-Perf

</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V

</TD><TD align=middle width=72>58 cc

</TD><TD align=middle width=88>1.84"

</TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.54"

</TD><TD align=middle width=98>1.94 x 1.76"

</TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.24 x 0.96"

</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 height=19>1969-76</TD><TD align=middle width=86 height=19>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72 height=19>60 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 height=19>1.84" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 height=19>1.54" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 height=19>1.94 x 1.76" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 height=19>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1977-80</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V</TD><TD align=middle width=72>69 cc</TD><TD align=middle width=88>1.78" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.45" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>1.94 x 1.76" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.24 x 0.96" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080 height=26>351 Cleveland</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080 height=26></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>1970-73 D0AE-E
D0AE-J
D1AE-AA
D1AE-CB

</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V (Open) </TD><TD align=middle width=72>74-77 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.67" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.02 x 1.65" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.38" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>1970-71 D0AE-G
D0AE-H
D0AE-M
D0AE-N
D0AE-R
D1AE-GA

</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V (Closed) </TD><TD align=middle width=72>62.8 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.19" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.71" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.50 x 1.75" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>2.00 x 1.74" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>CJ D1ZE-DA
D3ZE-AA
HO D2ZE-A

</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V (Open)

</TD><TD align=middle width=72>74-77 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.19" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.71" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.50 x 1.75" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>2.00 x 1.74" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>BOSS 351 D1ZE-B</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V (Closed)</TD><TD align=middle width=72>64-67 cc</TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.19" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.71" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.50 x 1.75" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>2.00 x 1.74" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>Austrailian (no #'s)</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V (Closed) </TD><TD align=middle width=72>62.8 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.67" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.02 x 1.65" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.38" </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ff6666><TD align=left width=163>351M/400</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V (Open) </TD><TD align=middle width=72>74-77 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.04" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.67" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.02 x 1.65" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.38" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080>390</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1961-68</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72>71-74 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.02" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.55" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1962-63 Hi-Po</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72>65-68 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.02" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.55" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1966-68</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72>67-70 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.02" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.55" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080>427</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>Low Riser</TD><TD align=middle width=86>?? </TD><TD align=middle width=72>64-67 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.08" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.64" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>High Riser</TD><TD align=middle width=86>?? </TD><TD align=middle width=72>73-76 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.18" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.72" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.78 x 1.38" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.78 x 1.30" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080>428</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1966-68</TD><TD align=middle width=86>2V </TD><TD align=middle width=72>71-74 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.02" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.55" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163>1966-68 Hi-Po</TD><TD align=middle width=86>4V </TD><TD align=middle width=72>67-70 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88>2.02" </TD><TD align=middle width=64>1.55" </TD><TD align=middle width=98>2.34 x 1.34" </TD><TD align=middle width=118>1.84 x 1.28" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080>429/460 ('68-'72)</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080>88 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080>2.09" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080>1.65" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080>2.18 x 1.87" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080>1.99 x 1.30" </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=163 bgColor=#808080>460 Police Interceptor</TD><TD align=middle width=86 bgColor=#808080></TD><TD align=middle width=72 bgColor=#808080>88 cc </TD><TD align=middle width=88 bgColor=#808080>2.19" </TD><TD align=middle width=64 bgColor=#808080>1.73" </TD><TD align=middle width=98 bgColor=#808080>2.20 x 1.93" </TD><TD align=middle width=118 bgColor=#808080>2.06 x 1.31" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

 

The '70-'71 4V closed chamber heads are the best ones you're likely to come across at swap meets or junkyards and they'll make good power in stock with a 10.0+ compression ratio.

 

If it's for a mild street motor, I'd use the 2 barrel heads.

The Cleveland 4 barrel heads are really only good if you're going the high RPM / huge cam route.

 

I agree with repoguy, you can always try to offload the intake especially if you have a longblock. But, if not - check the fifth digit of the VIN on '70-73 Mustang, '70-74 Torino, Cougar and Montego. Like I was sayin the other day, most 4V heads have the number 4 cast into the upper right or left corner of the head I believe.

 

I've got a buddy who works at a yard who might be able to get me some heads for a good price so since I already have the intake it would be pretty cool. Plus i would mind a big cam with higher rpms i haven't bought that yet.

 

The whole "4V heads don't make any power on the low end" is an internet and magazine myth. I have a '73 Torino with a 4v headed Clevo that will fry the tires on command, if that doen't give you whip lash, I'll strap you in my 4V headed '70 Mach I and the demonstration will be over. Use whatever you have, the close chambered heads will give you more compression, and believe it or not, are less prone to detonate because of the "quench" chamber. If you plan to turn the engine pretty hard, by all means replace the stock two piece valves with a set of one piece valves for insurance. Contrary to popular belief, you can use a 4V intake on 2V heads, the ports will not match up, but it will work, and it will make some power. I have installed far too mant 4V intakes on 2V heads and always gained power.

 

are those cars manual or auto? stock or what? I guess you kinda have to define "power". If power is spinnin the tires then my wifes minivan get's it done pretty nicely!

 

That's cool man I think it could be sweet. Just make sure you work out your stahl and gears to match that cam / induction profile ...

 

Search the net for people who import the austrailian 2 barrel closed chamber heads (you can find them on e**** sometimes), good bottom-mid power, with combustion chambers that are alot less detonation prone unlike the open chamber heads are. They would make you a nice a street motor that will fly.

 

Race day. If you get around the SF peninsula area, I have a fresh pair of the 4 bbl. heads open chamber that I'm not to proud of. Also a pair of the two bbl heads, clean but not machined.

 

The Torino is completely stock save for a set of ****** headers. It has a C-6 and a set of 3.25 gears. My whole point is that in a 4,000 pound car, the supposed "no low end 4V Cleveland" runs very well, even from idle where it isn't supposed to.

 

BTW all the open chamber cleveland heads are prone to cracking around (between) the valves (the last 400c I built I had to check 15 heads to find a usable pair), the open chambers are good boat anchors. If you are strapped for cash as far as building an engine build you a good 302 or 351w instead, they will build about the same or more hp and tq than a cleveland and their cheaper to build, if you allready have the cleveland, sale the big port 4v intake manifold you have and buy a good 4v intake made for use with the 2v heads.
I have been building ford engines for over 25 years.

 

Heres the email of a really good guy ( lawrence) who can import any cleveland parts for you and has parts in Oregon already.He can also supply any real world advice because he's had years of Experience with them.
Lawrence@yourmail.com

 

Probably no posi-track, or locker ( one wheel apeallin )
a 4v port intake used with 2v heads causes fuel to puddle in the intake where the ports don't match up, a**** other flow problems.
I know this because a friend of mine has been building hp clevelands since they first came out with them, he's seen it all as far as clevelands go.

 

I believe he's the guy I see on ebay selling the aussie 2v closed chambered heads.

 

I just went and talked to my machinist and he said good luck finding the 4V heads he's only seen one set....****e...i hope thats not true

 

They are hard to find nowadays, my friend has been collecting them to build clevelands, right now he has 18 sets of 4v closed chamber heads, he gets around $800.00 - $1000.00 a pair and there cleaned, manifluxed for cracks, and bare (the stock valves, retainers, and such are junk), then they need new guides and hardened seats put in if you run unleaded gas. You have to remember the 351c was only built for 3 years in America, and not all of them had 4v heads, the rest are all 351M, or 400s with 2v open chambers.

 

US Cs were built for 70-74 model years, that's 5 model years. I've run both 2 & 4V heads, both are fine!

 

At that price, you would be better off calling up Edelbrock for some new aluminum heads...

 

There are some aussie 2v closed chamber heads on ebay, here's a link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Auss...017QQitemZ270203712177QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

But you will still need new valves, springs, retainers, and such parts, plus machine work. By the time it's said and done you'll have a bunch of money tied up in a pair of stock heads. You can get a pair of ***embled Edelbrock performer rpm cleveland heads, part# 61629, only $1942.78 + frieght from Summit. Now you know why everone runs windsors, a whole lot cheaper.

 

The stock valves love to break if you turn them some rpm's..

 

What you need to do is go to the forum group I`m a member of . They are very good on the do`s & don`ts of Clevelands. The web is 351cleveland.net. Read thru all the post and ask questions. They will help . I`ve been running 351 Cleveland since the came out in `70. And you can`t believe all you read from others who only repeat what they have heard and read . The 4V motor is a Great motor on the street or strip. Also 4V heads are not hard to find. Pm me if you have any questions . G***erman

 

So True G***erman,I ran one in a F100 for years ..at full throttle most of the time and the torque is great even with 4V heads. Best to talk with experts who actually run the things!

 

That is very true. Lost a couple of engine that way. I think ford may still makes the racing valve. Check there motorsports catalog.

 

There available from the aftermarket also, BTW toss the springs, retainers and locks, seen alot of them come unglued too.

 

Big thanks to Rich Fox for my new 4v heads!

 

Your welcome. Have fun. RF

 

Now i need two valve spings that are rated at 100 lbs. and four valves for these bad boys anyone got any ideas? I need to get the measurments for them still though.

 

Summit Racing has them. Maybe get lucky on ebay or other type sites or perhaps swap meet, etc. Maybe that cleveland site mentioned earlier can be of help? Or maybe someone on here has some for ya ?

And why are you only replacing 2 springs and 4 valves ... the others are new or what? Aftermarket stuff or stock?

 

Some dummy lost two springs and valves. Not sure about needing 4 valves. How Come?