I have seen that first hand,in NON-union shops. "When in doubt,ship it out". They didn't care if it worked,or if there was a warranty claim. Their objective was to ship a certain number. How they did that wasn't an issue. "Doesn't matter what we make,people will buy it". Cl***ic "Big 3" mentality in 1970. Until the customers quit buying,of course. The quality of parts in the union shop I worked at was very good. Not strictly because of the union,just because management understood the product and manufacturing better. Too many companies are managed by over educated paper pushers,who think they can run anything based strictly on numbers. People who have never got their hands dirty. When they don't understand the products and how they are used, you will eventually have problems with the products. "Leadership is the art of convincing people to do the right things for you. Management is sitting around waiting for the right thing to happen,so you can take credit for it" Scott Adams "Leadership can only be provided through profound knowledge" W. Edwards Demming
Okay since we're skirting the edge of getting this thread squashed, think about this. You guys want to support your families and have money left over to finance an expensive hobby, that's all well and good. BUT, at the same time you want high quality parts, ***embled by skilled labor who also want to be compensated like you do, and you want the part to be inexpensive. There is an old saying that a guy who's making $12.00 an hour can't buy a car built by guys making $30.00 an hour. So if you want to be paid a good wage don't be surprised that the supplier you use doesn't want the same thing. This leaves a supplier no choice but to find cheaper labor, and you get what you pay for. Don't complain about the quality of a foreign made product if you're not willing to pay the premium price required by having it made by highly skilled domestic labor. Unfortunately there isn't enough of us willing to pay the premium price to make it feasible for a supplier to set up a domestic operation, he has to go where his market demands or he gets to go home broke.
Everyone wants to be paid top dollar for whatever ****ty little job they do, but don't want to pay realistic prices for someone else's labor.
Unfortunately there isn't enough of us willing to pay the premium price to make it feasible for a supplier to set up a domestic operation, he has to go where his market demands or he gets to go home broke.[/quote] Taiwan is CHINA. Alaska is USA. Where did you get your education? This is my third TANKS tank. I expected the quality I'd received before. I did not cheap-up and try to save a buck. The China made tank was a surprise. Regards, Ron
Taiwan is CHINA. Alaska is USA. Where did you get your education? This is my third TANKS tank. I expected the quality I'd received before. I did not cheap-up and try to save a buck. The China made tank was a surprise. Regards, Ron[/quote] Well, that was the topic of the thread to start with. You expected better,it wasn't up to your expectations. Contact Tanks and if you don't receive satisfaction-send it back.
I agree 100% with Unkl Ian. Don't you think our political leaders (on both sides) sold us out with NAFTA and most favored nation staus for China (after they took their political contributions from the corporations)? Illegal immigration is the same story, bring down the wages for the domestic workforce because the illegals will work for nothing. The WalMartization of America has been going on for 20 years. Now we have no domestic manufacturing, low wages and a declining standard of living for the middle cl*** (funny the top 10% are doing pretty good!). The big bad unions only represent about 12% of the workforce, some power huh? Why are the corporations racing to the bottom on wages, sending our money to our former (?) enemies, China and Vietnam? Because of good old American GREED!! We went through this in the late 1800's before Teddy Roosevelt broke up the big companies: Carnegie (steel), Rockefeller (oil), Mellon (banking) and more. It needs to happen again. And if any of you that are bashing the wages that the American worker makes, go ahead and try to live in this country with a middle cl*** lifestyle on Chinese wages or what an illegal immigrant makes. Your mud hut and bicycle are waiting for you.
Tman the next time I'm out (next month or so-when's the car show?) you will have to give me directions (to your mud hut) so I can visit you and see your A project.
Thats why I can't understand why so many are suppoerting Hillary. If she really cared or any of them cared about the USA the would do away with NAFTA, CAFTA and any other FTA. [/QUOTE] Your mud hut and bicycle are waiting for you. [/QUOTE] That is funny!!!
Your mud hut and bicycle are waiting for you. [/quote] That is funny!!! [/quote] Hey, it's a thread about gas tank/manufacturing quality! No politics on the HAMB. That's how threads get closed and you should know better.
You know, I dont know when the show is. I have spent a total of 30 minutes there the last couple years. I will PM you directions, it is pretty easy. And i dug up the car show dates, Feb29-March2
That is funny!!! [/quote] Hey, it's a thread about gas tank/manufacturing quality! No politics on the HAMB. That's how threads get closed and you should know better.[/QUOTE] It became political before I posted but if it offends you I will delete it!
If you are not happy with the quality return it. Unless enough people don't all we will get from our suppliers is junk no matter who makes it. I have had to learn Auto metal work because the shop I had do the work on my 54 turned out junk. I feel great about my work - is it perfect no - but I'm learning and getting better each week. jim H
Send it back ,tell them you want the one made in Mexico.. Or India Or Singapore Or Taiwan Or So.America Or Make your own Listen to James Mc Murtry sing " we cant make it here anymore" You'll feel better ,not because its true, because its a great song.
I work for GM so I know from first hand experience. Also if you feel wronged by where the part was made, start asking about it before you place your order. I look at everything at the stores and see where they are made. I do stuff made in other countries but I try to find stuff made in the USA first. I have e mailed many companies, car and non car related to see where their products have been made. If I find that what I wanted was made outside of the USA I will look alswhere and see what is available before I place the order with the foreign product.
Former? China has a sizeable nuke force pointed at the US. Also when they have their war games with Russia the USA is always the adversary. China also tries to break into our defense dept computers upwards of 5000-10,000 times PER DAY
I typically buy the parts that give me the best performance for the dollar (and not just performance in terms of power, - meaning longevity, quality, etc). A lot of the time, these unfortunately come from overseas. I believe most of the accusations above are true - Yes the American Corp's are greedy and see greater profit potential using offshore labor. Yes, American middle-cl*** workers have grown to expect too much pay for too little work (the union tech's at my workplace spend WAY more time standing around than anything else.) And yes, the American consumer is much more interested in price than any other aspect of a product. We are all to blame. So what can we do? Well - I doubt any of us on this board happens to be a CEO of a multinational corporation, but we can work harder at our jobs allowing our US employers to be more compe***ive, and we can be willing to pay a little more for American (I am). But the truth is, "those people" overseas are willing to work VERY hard for what we consider very little... and we as american workers need to work a little harder to compete with them, or else we are all going to lose our shirts. And yes
Well, that was the topic of the thread to start with. You expected better,it wasn't up to your expectations. Contact Tanks and if you don't receive satisfaction-send it back.[/QUOTE] Dunno where you got your education, but Taiwan is to China pretty much the oposite of the Cuba and USA deal, everytime somone in China sneazes folks pucker all over Taiwan.... we all send China our money for all the stuff our manufacturers now get built there and sell to us for the same price as when it was made here, but you will find Uncle Sam only sends planes/tanks/bombs to Taiwan, Taiwan has been since Mao the last little outpost of capitialism on the door step of the Commies (who do seem pretty capitalist these days.....) excuse my spelling it always ****s but I can read a map
As someone said, not all imported parts are junk. What's the best cordless drill? You'll hear many answers, but none made in the USA. Higher price and/ or American made versus imported does not always mean you get a better product, either. I own 2 Vice-grip style table clamps. The first one I bought was a Mac. I wasn't happy with it, due to the lack of a specific feature (T-slot mounting). I saw that HF had a T-slot mounting one on sale, so I went to look. Several useful features the Mac one lacks, and visibly better quality, at 15% of the price. Both made in China. I don't mean to hijack a thread, and this will be kinda long, but I have a perfect example of why parts are made overseas. No politics, just solid anecdotal experience that illustrates why parts are made overseas. A lot of the comments I see in this and other threads indicate a clear lack of understanding of why and how products get made the way they do. CadCo recently introduced new replacement timing covers. One of our compe***ors did, as well. Ours is made in ****stan Theirs is made in the USA. Comparison: Ours is a deep drawn stamping, like the original, only made from stainless so it won't rust out like the originals. The front crank seal area is deep drawn to give the proper sealing surface for the seal when pressed in (like the original). The threaded holes for the water pump bolts are deep drawn and threaded into the base material (like the original). The front oil pan seal is a stamping tack welded to the base material (like the original). They are available in both the 68-'76 and '77-'85 style. They are $125, selling them at a reasonable profit. They all fit and work just like the originals. The USA made parts are laser cut from flat sheet (also stainless). The threaded holes are nuts welded on the back. The oil pan lip seal is aluminum, bolted through the base material. The front crank seal hole is just a hole cut in the base material, with no depth to support the seal. They are shipped with a seal installed... They are only available in the '68-'76 style. Price? $250, and not really enough profit to cover the cost of inventorying them, let alone marketing, paying off the tooling costs, etc. Which part would you buy? If they were the same price, I would still buy the stamped one, because it has a better seat for the crank seal. We have been trying to get them made in the US for over 4 years. Couldn't find anyone who would guarantee quality AND make them in a reasonable quan***y for the demand, AND sell them to us for less than $400 each, our cost. We found a small 'mom and pop' shop in ****stan. They made a few prototypes, then came in person to see what we wanted changed. All before we put up a single penny. The owner of the company (an engineer) wanted to see them being installed to better understand the changes. Could an American company provide service like that? Yes. Could an American company provide compe***ive pricing and quality? Yes, but it is not in their best interest to do so. The 'litmus' test: Would you A: buy the imported stamped part for $125 B: buy the almost as good USA part for $250 C: buy a stamped USA part for $700 (don't forget, we have to amortize the $30k in US Made tooling to eventually break even). If you answered 'A', you are in the majority, and the reason so many simpler things are imported. If you answered 'B', your level of patriotism defies reason. If you answered 'C', you are either independently wealthy, or a liar. Why this price structure happens can be explained by the theory of opportunity cost. Once the tooling is made and the machine is set up, 99% of the labor involved should be able to be done, literally, by a trained monkey. We have skilled labor wanting to be paid for their skills. Fine - let them build stuff that requires that skill, and let a less skilled workforce, in a part of the world where $3/ hr gets you by, and $10 is upper-middle-cl***, build this stuff. The American company can make something that the foreign shops CAN'T make cheaper, and get what their skill is really worth, by turning down the job that SHOULD go overseas and get made cheaper. If you want to learn more about about opportunity cost and the reason real, degreed economists (not the economic pundits - AKA *****s - on the news) say that outsourcing less skilled work is a GOOD thing, go take economics 101 at your local junior college. If you don't sleep through the cl***, you'll never say NAFTA (or any other -FTA) is a bad thing again. Quality, especially on a part with little skilled labor required to build the part, is readily available overseas. I would pay a little more for an American made part that is as good or better than the import, in most cases, but not many times more, especially if the imported part is just as good or better. If we could sell an American made timing cover, just as good as our imported one, for anything under $200, there would not be an imported one. Importing parts isn't always greed on the part of the retailer (though it sometimes is). Unions are also not always the cause of the problem (though they sometimes are). Neither are consumers (though they sometimes are). It is sometimes just good economics, and good business. As for your gas tank, I wouldn't be surprised if the other 2 you got were made in the same plant in Taiwan. No manufacturer is perfect. No manufacturer, distributor, or retailer who operates on any kind of volume can catch every defective part before it goes out the door. The biggest difference between a good vendor and someone you want to avoid doing business with, is if they take care of you when there is a problem, or if they just say 'haha - I got the money, the part is yours'. Call Tanks. Don't expect them to cover the freight for sending the part back to them, but they should exchange it if it really is sub-standard. Or they may tell you that you got what you paid for, and you're welcome to return it, less a restocking fee, and buy the top quality one someone else makes for a much higher price. There are several vendors of tanks out there that sell top quality stuff (some made in USA, some overseas). If they won't take care of you, and there really is a good quality one available at a similar price, then it's last resort time - return the part and do a charge back. You probably can't recover the shipping costs (either direction) that way, but you'll get the money for the junk back and you can spend it on the good stuff.
I said "former" because that's the way the political and business leadership in this country treats them. The question mark (?) was there exactly for the reasons you stated. They are eating our lunch now and will be moving to the main course soon unless we stop paying them to do it.
If Taiwan is not China then what does R.O.C. stand for Republic of Canada, Republic of Cuba ? and who lives there Indians? Call it what you will it is still CHINA!
Well, that was the topic of the thread to start with. You expected better,it wasn't up to your expectations. Contact Tanks and if you don't receive satisfaction-send it back.[/quote] The stalemate of the last Chinese Civil War has resulted in two political states using the name China: the People's Republic of China (PRC), commonly known as China, which controls mainland China, Hong Kong, and Macau; and the Republic of China (ROC), commonly known as Taiwan, which controls the island of Taiwan and its surrounding islands Two entirely different nations.I've been to both so I do know that both are different places languages,governements ,life styles ...as alike as cheese and chalk. Would you be insulted if I said that south America was the same place as north America? same argument.
[ but I can read a map [/quote] Dosen't your map say Taiwan R.O.C? Or is that Republic of Columbia? Regards, Ron
What this thread has taught me is that no one is more digressional than your average HAMBster. Regards, Ron
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