I've got a situation I can't go into detail here, but I need advice regarding a process developed by a family member that is now being used by another company. The process was not patented, but established years ago, and is now being marketed by another company. What can I do???? Please send a PM or call me at 559-592-2707. Thanks in advance. Dan Marvin, Owner Exeter Auto Supply
You know, this is actually a really good topic that some may see as O/T, but I think there are a lot of us around here that have good, original ideas. Legalities of taking it to another level get complicated. In parallel to Dan's request, maybe someone can point to a "Dummies Guide" in the mean time. BTTT for dmarv
I started a thread 7 months ago or so about a similar thing. I've got a couple winner's knockin around the old grey goo factory and would love to take it to the next level but it's just so intimidating.
# 1 Rule with a Pat. ( You ) - the owner - has to be able to inforce it. Inforce = Money - ( lots ) Unless its a zillion dollar idea - thing don't work out the way you would like to think they should.
Hotrodzz is right, AND there is more to consider. If the "invention" becomes public knowlege, then I believe it is far more difficult to protect. If you were in compe***ion in developing something, then if you can establish the earlier date of "discovery" you have something to build a case upon. Again, Hotrodzz$$$! If you try to obtain a design patent, it is harder I believe since the patent covers more area. Imagine if ****era had patented (design) his aluminum wheel. A design patent would, I think, mean all forms of machined Al wheel builders would owe him. Dan, in the case where a patent was not pursued, and the concept was later used by someone else...you may stand a chance, but I would do some serious web searching to see what might be shown as examples and outcomes. Good luck! Pitman patent # 4327572 Wear Tester for Shoes, all funded by the "just Do-it" folks.
I had that same situation years ago with building big 4X4's. I had a problem with the rag joints tearing apart so my buddy and I built 4 steel joints...I used one and kept one for a spare...he used one and sold one to his uncle....his uncle knew someone who knew some one and within a few monthes the exact same joint we built was being sold by a major company and we were left out in the cold.... Ya know when building our rides we build something out of need and not even think about the fact that part is not out and then BAM...
When you have an original idea, you have one year after "first public disclosure" to file with the patent office. Public disclosure means that the idea or device was used/tested/displayed off of your property. If your first public disclosure happened years ago and you never filed, you're probably screwed. On the other hand, maybe you never had a public disclosure at all and the other guy came up with the same idea independently. I don't think you can stop him from using the idea, but you might be able to prevent him from patenting it on the basis of your "prior art". You would have to show properly do***ented evidence that you had the idea before him. At least he couldn't stop you from using your own idea. If you somehow managed to shut the guy down (unlikely), then you could pursue a patent yourself. If you hire a patent attorney, you're probably looking at upwards of $10,000 or even more if you get rejected and have to re-submit. You could take a swag at writing the patent yourself, but patent language is not the common man's language. I've written several patent applications and each time the text was vastly different once converted to legalese by lawyers. By the way, patents are often not worth the paper they are written on. A good lawyer working with a good Engineer can find a way around most of them. I hope this helps
HenryJ429 is right, if you didn't file any patent or copyright the idea, you have nothing legal to stand on. Especially since you're outside of the time limit. I work in engineering & without patent protection, you can't stop someone from using it, even if they got it from you. You are legally allowed to "substantially" change a concept or idea & apply for a seperate patent of your own. It doesn't take a lot of time or brains for that, sometimes just a different material & manufacturing process is enough. Sorry, but I think you're SOL.
Did he do a poor mans patened? Meaning did he write the idea down and mail it to himself? If he did that should be post dated and will hold in court. If he didnt do anything like that i doubt theres anything he can do
a friend of mine is an inventor and he told me something i will never forget. you can always get a patent by improving an existing one.
Patents are very interesting read the story in the link below, it's a little bit of automotive history I'll bet most dont know about http://www.bpmlegal.com/wselden.html Gary
Urban Legend. http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/2004/11/the_poor_mans_p.html Btw, you would be surprised how many "great ideas" that you might come up with are already patented years ago by someone else.
I'm beginning to wonder if patents really are any good. Seems like after the patent is approved and you start production it's about two months until the Chinese knockoffs start showing up here....
"If he did that should be post dated and will hold in court" Only as a method to disprove someone else's claim to their patent. Patent law only does one thing well: provide attorneys with a continuous supply of money.
Unfortunately, we live in a society that promotes undermining the next guys hard work an exploits the ideas and growth of the small guy! The purpose of patents and trademarks and copyrights as we all know were initially created to protect the ideas of the people who developed them. To give them an advantage in industry to promote and use their idea with out fear of someone else trying to capitalize on it. Now today, if you are considering applying for one, you better go into it with the mindset that at least 20 other people are simultaneously trying to beat you to the patent office with the same idea or concept. And that when or if you are granted a patent, as someone else has already mentioned, the Chinese equivalent will be on the market 2 months later, and you will need to be prepared to financially(Big Bucks) defend your right to protect it. Easily costing 10's of thousands of dollars,even if you win and are granted compensation for their use and damages. You are still out the money up front for lawyers and such, and if those people don't bankrupt on you and "pay" you in the next 10 years. You still have all that out of pocket expense tied up ,and may really never recover trying to defend that which is yours by rights to start with. Seems like the worst case scenario of a catch 22 that there is. I have several patents myself, and just hold my breathe everyday, hoping I don't have to deal with that situation....but I know one day its coming!
You would have no recource to sue but you also have the right to continue to use the design without the fear of being sued yourself because you can prove "prior art" to the patent issue date. Prior Art is simply you proving you used the design before they were granted intellectual property rights by the US patent. I'm not an Attorney but have been granted a few patents in working for my employer.
It is funny when i read these stories. Our guy has defended our designers patents in the past and it was nowhere close to the type of money you speak of..................
Years and years ago early 1960's, me and a buddy had this great idea of a spring loaded ignition switch. You turn it to off position the key pops out in your hand, we were tired of locking our keys in the damm car. So we get one machined up, worked great, all our friends loved the idea. We figure it's time to get a patent, spend maybe 3 thousand ( real big bucks back then) on drawings , attorny's, forms, forms , forms and submitted it to US Patent Office, it's farting thru silk underware for us from now on, no more steel mills , no sir,man were gonna be on easy street. Holy christ there must of been 300 of same idea submitted before with the first one on record in something like 1912. So I resigned myself to be a working smuck and getting burned twice a week for the rest of my life or whatever is left of it.
Simple open and shut cases are definately less expensive to fight! I was speaking from the stand point of fighting someone overseas and international legal battles that drag on and on can escalate to enormous sums of money. Especially if they also file a patent that seems to mimick your design or concept, and has to really be researched by both sides to determine if any violation has indeed occured....
"turn it to off position the key pops out in your hand" How to jump ahead of the techno curve: the motion of the key could be used to alert you in other ways with solenoids: 1. blow horn 2. lock electric doors 3. switch on flasher for interior lights
Hey, don't feel bad. I came across an old newspaper article in the archives that said, ... "The New York Patent office will be closing at the end of the year, (1913) because it's felt that ALL useful inventions; have ALREADY been invented." Think the guy(s) that made THAT prediction, might have been a bit "overzealous!???!"
I'm not a patent attorney but I work with our patent department all the time as I'm in the Engineering/Design field and while everyone has given good advice, I think a few important details have been overlooked. 1: The Patent Search. Once you've disclosed the idea, did the drawings and made some tenative steps towards a patent, you will need a legal team to pour over the existing patents on file and compare/contrast your idea. Fortunately, I have an entire corporate legal team to do this for me at work, but for the home inventor the good news is that in 2006-7, the US Patent Office put it's patent search online for anyone to use, so if you do a little legwork on your own, you can shorten your attorney's patent search time by comparing your ideas to ones already posted...Here's the link below. http://www.uspto.gov/patft/ 2: Design patent versus Functional patent: Most folks do not know there are two basic types of patents. The Design patent is similar to a copyright in that it is mostly to patent the look or style of something but it's more enforceable than a copyright. Plus a Design patent is a lot easier to acquire than a Functional patent. A Functional patent is exactly as it sounds, you have to prove that your idea really works the way you say it does; that too can get pricey with models, mock-ups, testing, validation etc. 3: Defense: Once you have your patent the legal fees don't stop there. Everytime another party challenges, breaches or references your patent you have to pay to defend it, basically you are paying your attorney to be a watchdog for your patent whle the other party sniffs around...This is also what can break the home inventor. A corporation sees your invention at a trade show, or you shop it around from door to door trying to sell your idea...the corporation starts a formal review on your patent, and launches their people into a full-fledged frenzy to make enough changes to your idea to make it 'their own' and they file for a patent based upon your idea...but since they've changed it enough to make it their own the home inventor gets dragged into a prolonged expensive court battle that the corporation will eventually win because they have the lawyers, the political pull, the money and yes, the gall to take your idea from you... It happens. A lot. 4: Length of coverage: If you are awarded a Design patent it only covers your idea for 14 years. If you are awarded a Functional patent you are coverd for 20 years. Twenty years is not really a long time to protect something that may be your livelihood so you will be in court soon enough to protect your idea and if it's a lucrative idea, you can bet there will be Barbarians at the gate waiting to usurp your idea if you miss your dates...
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