I found the following in an old post and got to wondering if it would survive in the digger I'm cooking up. What do you think? Re: Why would you eliminate the torque converter? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by atch so if you run this shaft in place of the tc can you push start like with an in-out box? doesn't seem like you could use the electric starter any more. Originally Posted by Shifts Its just a coupler from the crankshaft to the front pump. Most are bolted up to the crankshaft flange & retain the flexplate just for starter use & eng balance. We use a ball valve to dump the pressure when idling or at a stop. The main advantage is rotating weight loss & they run SUPER cool. They cannot be push started unless it has a rear pump or a mechanical way to activate the low band. NOT real streetable! You should see them run on our dyno, damn near tips it over when it shifts LOL. DAVE
if you plan on launching from an idle i can see it, but if you plan on doing a stall launch (trans brake) you're gonna have some issues. i always liked the clutch turbo...never seen a clutch 'glide... turbo would be too big for a digger...and they blow to bits eventually...probably why no one is doing them any more...but they are cool.
Have to know a little bit more about what you have in mind, first. I'm not certain I see the advantages for a drag car.....if I read this right they are basically using the ball valve as a crude clutch. I would think that it would be a ***** to become consistent with it...myself. I think I personally would be either redlighting or having 2 second reaction times every launch. I've seen Clutch-Flites & clutch-TH400s before, but it's gone by the wayside, kinda like straddle-roller cams.
No converter to stall. lauching is accomplished by closing the barrel valve? I'm guessing that you would hook it up to a foot pedal and work it like a clutch?
Why not just run a transbrake and use a modification that it is designed for? A dump valve on the trans pump hydraulic pressure is not intended to act as a slipping clutch; the bands, clutch plates and steels inside are not designed to take up the slipping action.
The coupler and ball valve method to engage an automatic trans is/was popular with the IMCA modified round racers. Might search some IMCA modified sites.
This is going in an early sixties Dragmaster style rail. A transbrake is NOT an option for me. I do like the idea of a "clutch" pedal". This seems like something I could do as opposed to buying a setup like a clutchflite. Keeping it cool without a cooler is a huge advantage as is lightening up the rotating m***. I also wouldn't need to step up to a JW Ultrabell. It's not really about what things were intended for, it's about what I can make them do and will it survive. A lot of times folks say things won't work because nobody is doing it. I'm that guy who has to find out for himself. ;-) Thinking outside of the box.
Yeah, but if I hook the coupling up to a light flywheel how would that be any different torque wise than my manual trans setup I'm running in my coupe?
If you are trying to be nhra legal I think you need it if you are faster than 12. Maybe it's 11. I forget exactly where the cutoff is. A transbrake requires power and I don't plan on carrying a battery.
I ran this ball valve set-up in my IMCA modified for years, as 38Chev454 says, It will not work for a drag car. You could never ever be consistant, its very hard on plates and front pump.
The ultra bell allows you to run without a flexplate shield. It's pretty handy if you have no clearance for a shield, way more expensive though. I understand why you don't want to use a trans brake, and I'm not suggesting you do. Curious though, have you ever used one?
Nope, I've no experience with a transbrake. Mostly just because I've never had a serious car. I need an adapter to get from the hemi to the TH350 anyway so an ultrabell will probably cost $200 more than just a plain adaptor setup. That and a separate shield would look sort of odd. I'll concede to the circle track guys on this one being a bad idea. Just figured I'd better explore each option, no matter how different.
He's talking about the torque multiplication effect of the converter....intrinsic to the design...not the weight of the parts themselves. So far as that goes, drag cars often run heavy flywheels, depending on a number of factors. The old rule of thumb used to be "heavier the car- heavier the flywheel". Not so much of an issue nowadays. UltraBells have their good and bad points. I guess you could always paint the adapter or UltraBell flat black to disguise it. I have never seen a clutch-TH-350....after the 400 came out, they (the 350) were kind of tossed aside. They were used in the beginning in some F/X cars & whatnot...Arnie Beswick comes to mind, if memory serves. (not in clutch form, though).
The ball valve "trick" was used on oval short track automatics when they became popular in the '80s.I think that fad has died. I would think a trans brake will launch harder,and run quicker. That's why everybody runs them,where they are legal. 7 "C" cell batteries will give you 11.5 volts, should be enough to operate a trans brake. If you want to run a clutch pedal because it's "Traditional",go for it.
Kerry, I know exactly where you are coming from. I catch flak all the time because I have the hard mounted motor, ****** and rear end. I know I could go faster if I built a 4 link but I don't want a bracket car....I want to drive a car that feels like 1964. That is why I have held out on the Fly for so long, as far as radiator etc. Finally I had too. I just got tired of watching everyone else building "newstalgic" cars and mine sitting in the shade cooling off.
Well, this one isn't going to have a radiator and I may regret it but enough gray haired racers have told me how it was. Most folks aren't picking up on me shooting for that 1962 vibe.
you don't necessarily have to run a shield, you can run a blanket instead which looks better, protect you more in the event of trans failure and save spending however much on an ultra-bell + modifications to be honest with a light weight slingshot it'll launch fine off idle still getting the wheels up and make it more manageable, less stress on parts so longer life
I've got to agree about the radiator. They look like do-do in a dragster. A trans brake on the other hand...
I just got the water fills for the hemi yesterday from a fellow HAMBer. A cool old set of Ansens I've had a lot of hair brained ideas but it keeps coming back to center
Radiators definitely look ****py in a vintage FED, as do batteries.... http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/car/585511190.html
One trick used back in the day was to use a simple tank about 6" in diameter & 24" long...return hose in, outlet to water pump....just adding some extra system capacity can make a noticeable difference. I've seen them mounted both horizontally & vertically, though I suppose it would be easier to bleed if vertical. Uglier, though. Polish it up and it doesn't look too bad, though it would be more effective anodized flat black.
Hey Kerry, I shure ''feel the shootin for 1962'' Like you said. Maybe do a manual trans like they did back then. Tom Masa had a 2 speed La sale trans in his Dragmaster car when he first put it together. Very common back then. I looked in the cl***ifieds here on the hamb and found this right away. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245651&highlight=transmission And a pic of Toms Dragmaster. This was 1962 or 1963.
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