any one on here know if there is someone who can give ball park estamates on vintage race car values?? the car appraisal guys won't touch it with a 10 ft pole cause it has no ***le or corperate paper trail (paper trail).
I think that on race cars there would be several factors to consider. Who built it. Who drove it What races it won and what races did it run in? How close to it's original configurtation it currently is in.
the bottom always falls out when a price guide arrives .a great car should always stand alone ,try and buy a damaged part for its remaining parts then the seller pulls a guide out and puts a price in align with a perfect part i see this at every swap meet and a deal dies on the table.real race cars are almost never complete i would start with how original it is and work from there and it will come down to the parties involved thats its true worth
In the 70's I had an Elva Formula Jr. front engine roadster . I paid about $500 for it , sold it for less , now they are $30K+ . I also had an Allard K2 roadster that I paid $5000 for . One similar went on auction in AZ for close to $200K . Go figure
I agree with Mr48chev, there are things to consider. Personally I think the more original and period correct the better. History is also big. I have seen a few neat old drag project cars with no history what so ever and they didn't bring much. But that same car running with some nice history, all done up on the auction block? Who knows where it could go. Personally I have a thing for old drag cars so I would be the one going in over my head in the front row -Dean
If all else fails use the want adds from Hemmings {{ they have a race car section} or vintage oval track racing also want adds. Keep checking as I have my 2 vintage race cars appraised just keep looking and tell the appraiser guys what you think you car is worth.. I hope this helps... Bobby..
just wondering what my restored rail may bring if in the right place/time (auction)? Its all original 1959 frame (un-molested),one of 6 know restored of the 6 & it's one of 3 that run.rail manufacturer "lyndwood welding" has it's own history with in the NHRA history + the rail has local history (PA/NJ/MD) was originaly an A/D blown 394 olds w/direct drive. when I found it it was set up by the last owner for a SBC & saginaw trans. I restored the rail as it was last run (sbc set up) all the parts ont he car are period and the rail restored to circa 1964 'ish have pics of the original rail running at local tracks + written literture on the cars performance & local wins, positive ID on the rail by original crew men (owner is dead)+ the complete Lyndwood history in pics/written text. this car is a running fully restored car. has had exposure to some magazines + a few hot rod video's (1990's) .If I sold it the money would be for my kids education, I'm just afraid this area would not offer the better money and maybe I'd have to send it west to sell it? what do you guys think? current set up is: 1959 ,98" wb Lyndwood "Eliminator II" dragster 1964 sbc (dated), vette fuelies ,engine/heads blower & race prepped GMC 671 supercharger (all fresh inside -original outside),ealry 60's weiand sbc blower inatake,hilborn injection. 2.5 gallon Eelco fuel tank w/pressure pump. sun tac + sun mag sending unit. scintell/vertex mag (re-done- fresh, but pre dates WWII) 1959 chevy 3 speed short tail (no 1st or rev gears) ansen cast iron NHRA approved bell housing w/NOS schieffer clutch & 40# flywheel. american racing 4 hole magnesium wheels original seat belt (US mil***ary surplus gunners lap/latch belt) original Lyndwood 57 chevy rear w olds axels, drum brakes original lyndwood hand brake system, original lyndwood steering/front end/suspension & laced wheels (made/modified by lyndwood), reproduced + original parts: lyndwood friction shocks lyndwood gauge panel lyndwood frame badge lyndwood steering wheel radir 8.20 x 15 slicks avon front tires 3.20 x 19 re-production dragster interior circa early 1960's re-made alum body off of original lyndwood panels + my frame by a "Known" race car tin knocker from the 60's.
Nice! See now I would think at the right auction that could bring quite a bit. There really arent many complete rails left... -Dean
I'd actually like a real appraisal on it, like I said If I sold it the money is for my kids and seems like the collector car market is hot now? I'd hate to get peanuts for it 5-10 years down the line cause that market dried up. I have a good friend that does collector car & muscle car appraisals and he said he can't do it cause he has nothing to base it on? I'd like to find or talk to someone who is a car collector or racing appraiser that could atleast tell me what to expect (ballpark) and tell me if I should consider selling now or wait a few more years.
Values are a real subjective thing, especially when it comes to a complete restoration. I did an appraisal for a friend on his 1973/74 Sanger Drag 18'6" Boat a couple of months ago which was 10 pages long. He had a lot of do***entation on the boat since new and was the second owner. The boat was original to a point................it didn't have the original L88 427 Chevy or side mount gas tanks. Other than that it had the original trailer and the boat had never been repainted. First.............not having the original motor hurts..............total restoration is good as long as everything was there originally and everything was restored period correct. In my friends case, the boat with original motor would have worth over $30k.....without the original motor made it worth about $10k lower and in your case because the dragster may be worth considerably more...........may mean the appraisal without original motor may be a lot less (if the dragster with original motor would be worth $100k, without original motor it may be worth only $60/70k)......................... As I said in starting, when you make an appraisal on anytype of nostalgia boat, car, airplane, motorcycle.......................do***entation is the first key, being totally original is the second.........................but this is subjective at best. The hardest part of doing an appraisle is doing your homework.............................a lot like appraising a house, what did the house next door sell for, or the one over two blocks. When appraising something nostalgia you need sometype of guideline.................................this is where the research comes in, and sometimes you can spend a lot of time doing this research............that is why appraisles on nostalgia vehicles can cost upwards of $500/1000 depending on the amount of time spent researching and the amount of do***entation available, unless you want to work for $10 per hour. IMHO
I hate to say it but I'm not a big fan of professional appraisals. You need them for insurance, but they are not very reliable for determining market value for a rare or unique car. The guy I use is very knowledgeable in a general sense (and he puts together a great report for the insurance companies), but it's impossible for one guy to be an expert on every kind of car - there are too many! A guru that knows these cars is the best bet - but just beware any hidden agendas (like they want to buy it).
I watched the RM auction today and saw a completly fabricated duesenburg race car go for $225k,and my jaw dropped,There were no original duesy parts on the thing.Its a buyers market its worth what someones willing to pay.Hopefully in your case that will be a desired car and you'll make your money.I think you need to think of a number and stick to it,and hold onto the car until you get it.
I don't know about appraisals, but you might want to check with Doc., or one of the other guys on this board that have similar cars. Good drag racing info here... http://www.wediditforlove.com/
Alsance, Sorry to hear of your issue with Professional Appraisers.......................the people that do appraisals for Barrett Jackson certainly are professional , but for a lot of us it's not a full time professional job, more of a hobby like building Hot Rods, but we are still professionals! Some of us have been lucky enough to have been involved with cars for a long time, 20/30/40 years. I myself have been involved in drag racing for some 25+ years from the early 60's until the late 80's, been involved in drag boat racing for awhile (and know a few guys who helped started drag boat racing some 50+ years ago) along with doing a little road racing. Oh yes, I've built a few drag cars, hot rods, restored some cars like 1968 Z28, 1966 Mustang GT350, and a couple of hot rods............................I am not a guru by any means, but certainly know who to talk with and where to look when it comes to appraising..............and again the internet has helped shorten the time it takes to do***ent "proof" of the value of any vehicle. I am not an expert, but can hold my own when it comes to any American made vehicle like Muscle Cars, Hot Rods, Drag Cars, Drag Boats, Road Race/Trans AM/CanAM cars...................................ect. There are quite a few professional appraisers who are experts in Ferrari's, Alfa's, Bugatti's, airplanes, military vehicles..................etc. And...................if an appraiser wants to buy your car................great.................as long as he has given you "Full" do***entation on what your car is worth and what he has based the information on.................................... IMHO
I'll throw my hat into the ring. No one knows if your car will be worth more now or down the road. The market is always fickle and seems to run in trends. An appraisal may help with insurance, but I don't think it will help much in selling your car. Top dollar always comes when the right buyer and seller get together. I say if you what to sell it, put it out there and see what the market will bear. If you get an offer you like, you have your answer. If you don't, then no need to let it go. My '60 Ch***is Research car doesn't have any do***ented racing history, but it is a 100% show build and spent time in the NHRA museum. It has even been in a video of the museum. Richard said he spent 10 years looking for all of the parts. It's full period correct with all of the Ch***is Research parts, and a blown injected Olds with an original Scott Super Slot. I gave 25,000 for it(that was the asking price). One of the most famous drag cars in history,Nanook II, just sold last week with a ton of spares. Price...60,000. Just some more data points to consider. By the way, that's a beautiful car ya got there. Doc.
Hello I would be happy to give you my 2 cents if you like, give me a call. I have a 50's FED ( the one in the Suede Palace at the last Grand National Roadster Show) and have to buy and sell also to support having a shop in LA. I have a good pulse on the market. No I am not some sleezy ..... I would be happy to talk to you about your car, give you an idea what you should be able to get for it. Keep it is you can! Run the piss out of it! Wil www.sakowskimotors.com 310 978 9558
The best place to start on values is replacement cost. Consider a total loss, what would it cost to get another or build from scratch a new one based on the remains. I recently sold a car for 40K more than anyone thought it would bring. My logic on closing the sale was, If I give you a free car you could not restore it at today's prices for what you can buy this for. These are the only tangeble factors you can relate to in order to protect or market any of this stuff. After all, insurance co's are supposed to be selling "protection" of that ***et which includes replacement in the case of a total loss.
I wasn't knocking "appraisers" (I think the guy that does mine is pretty sharp) - I was saying that "appraisals" for rare or unique cars is not going to tell you market value. The reason is simple, there are just too many intricacies (not to mention variations based on time & place) that go into what something might be worth. Here's a simple example of a car much less rare then the one discussed in this thread. They made something like 1800 Shelby Fastbacks in 1969. An appraiser can get a rough idea of value based on 428CJ vs 351 Cleveland, 4 speed vs automatic, basic condition, that sort of thing. However, unless the appraiser is a Shelby nut he's not going to know that the correct cooling fan and clutch (with the right stampings) goes for $1000.00. There's a whole bunch of little parts on that car that might look o.k. to anyone but a super expert that knows how to read date codes and factory part numbers. There can be a $10,000 to $20,000 difference in value depending on all these little items. The traditional hot rod world has the same sort of issues. The value of a car may vary quite a bit depending on the history but also the little pieces used in the construction. A competent but non-hot rod appraiser will not know the difference most of the time.
Just an old race car is worth $X because of it's condition and number of period original parts that it has. The part that is REAL Valuable is the history that the car has. If you set two of the same cars side by side of equal condition and one has no significant history and the other has a do***ented lineage, the historic racer will blow the other car away in value. I'm familiar with Kurtis Kraft Offy Midgets. So here's a hypothetical case: One car could be worth $25,000 that had Joe Blow as the driver. An equal condition car driven by Parnelli Jones could be worth $75,000+. Always, whenever possible, buy the car with a do***ented lineage. Oh yeah, as far as value. Use comparibles in the market place to estimate the worth.
thanks for all the in put guys! I found this rail in a junk yard back in '89 and restored it and ran it in nostalgia exhibition (goodguys & esta events) till they outlawed the old rails unless they met current tech(95). I refused to add tubing or modify it so I parked it. I take it out a could times a year for reunions but other then that it sits under a car cover sleeping. as for Garlits, he tried to buy it from me before I restored it back in '89. he also has a restored lyndwood in his musuem (non running) "the little liz". I've spoken to him on many occasions about the lyndwood legacy ect. No other restored lyndwoods have gone up for auction/sale all are accounted for in there restorers hands as on 2008, so I cannot compare sale pricing to them, I'd have to look for a Fenn rail (k-88 or te-440) at auction to get a price idea. I was told by a fellow restorer that an un restored roller(no engine/trans) K-88 fen car with history went for $60k at the steve evans estate auction back in 2001 (?). don't know if this was true or made up, kinda thought that was way too much for a roller! I know to recreate this style lyndwood with an injected 265 cost my buddy almost $25K with him doing all the tube/ch***is fab-bending & welding (he's a welder by trade). he used my ch***is as a template for the tubes/body/wheel base/steering /upholstry - basically everything was copied to a "T". I'm sure it would have been over $30K if he had to pay a shop to do it. his is the bliss brothers (S&W) c dragster seen in the pics next to mine.
here's a pic of the restored bliss brothers car, the one recreated using my rail as a template/guide.
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