OK I am starting my first repairs on my A Extended cab PU. I got in the patch panels from snyders today and need help starting. The panels were 70 bucks shipped so I don't want to screw it up. My questions are as follows. First the panels for the doors are about quarter inch to long. I figure I will just make the inside door side shorter.Good idea? Second is what are folks using to cut with? I was going to use a cutting wheel, but if any one has got a better suggestion I would appreciate. Lastly how should it marked for cutting? I noticed that the panes come with an under lip. I ***ume this is for play? I figure I will fill the gap with weld? Any help is appreciated. I know I will make mistakes along the way but want to get off on a good start.
I would use the cutoff wheel to cut,make sure you cut at the first bevel and not at the end,that goes under the existing panel.Put it on a solid surface.As for the extra 1/4",just grind it off.
Better to cut off not enough than too much. Cut small and see how it fits, then some more until it fits well. I use a 1/16" cutoff wheel on a grinder most often, just be careful.
Should I bump it up against the bottom. Run a line along the top and then measure down the distinace to the bevel. Mark it there and thats where I make my cut?
Too long, or too wide? The step flange is made to slide under the existing skin. If your welding skills are up to it,cut it off and **** weld it. If not find someone to help you. The step flange will make it hard to correct any warpage, and will make a great place for rust to form later. Do you have the new innerstructure at the door bottoms?
tinbender is spot on...lose the flange and ****-weld.I use 1/16" cut-off wheels also...tip* Iwill scribe the line I want to cut, then lay masking tape up to the line, then lay another strip of tape just above the line..leaving a gap of about 1/16"..this really helps guide the cut-off wheel and makes it easier to see also...do not try and cut it all at once..I make several p***es trying not to generate too much heat in one area.measure 3 times...cut once. and it's always better to have to go back and trim it down than end up with too much gap!
If you've ever seen the little **** welding clamps they sell, they make a patch panel like this a walk in the park. **** welding is best because you give the panel back its flexibility that it had previously. With the flange the panel becomes too rigid, and like bender said, creates a nice shelf for rust.
Hey, Do the patch panels have any crown to them? From the picture, they don't look like they do. If they don't, you'll have to figger what you'll do to put the crown into the panel. Study the best of the two doors, and get a good idea of what shape you'll need the patches to con- form to. Now look at the patches and decide how they need to be shaped. This could be as easy as "crowning" them over a dolly on the bench, using a stretcher (as in shrinker/stretcher machine) to crown the top half of the patch, after you trim off the step flange, to add the necessary, or adding the crown after you have welded in the patches. The ladder being a poor choice, and not much of an option if you mig weld in the patches. The t******* of the patches is pretty straightfoward, look at the door shells and try to save as much clean factory metal, clean meaning no rust, holes, damage or filler, as is possible. I like to do my lay-out on cleanly grounded metal, a 24 grit disc on a 7'' grinder is my choice, as it cuts through dead paint and any scale or filler pretty fast. A cutoff disc isn't ment to be used as a grinding disc, but I'm seein' that done alot these days. At this time I don't even have to talk about goggles and their necessity, do I? A clean line made by a felt tipped pen (Sharpie), or a metal scribe are two of my choices for layout markers. Masking tape pulled across the lower portion of the door skin to be cut off, will aid in the drawing of a straight line. If you can read a tape measure, than transfer those measurements to your patch panel, and after you've checked and re- checked those measurements cut the difference from the patch panel .A cutoff disc in a die grinder, the 4'' ones would be my choice, after you have clamped the patch panel to a work bench. NEVER trim a piece of sheetmetal, with a die grinder, while holding it in your hands! Vice Grips or zip screws or "C" clamps will hold the patches in place while you tack them. Alternate your tack welds to opposite ends of the door patch. Careless welding will ruin this job in a New York minute! S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
If you've never welded a patch panel before, I strongly recommend the backing strip. I remember my first **** welded patch panel - It had some warpage. The backing strip is a safer first-timer method in my opinion.
Never done it. I was thinking about keeping the backing strip. It is all good advice. So I am taking everything in to consideration. I work for the local school district and am buddies with the high school welding teacher. He said he would help me out, I don't want to go to him unless I absolutley can not figure it out. His advice for welding was to "push the bead instead of pulling. Weld 2 inches at time in different spots to avoid warping. I am not to worried about rust as this is my first chop and not going to be a seller ,but a driver. I still want to do the thing right though. So I am thinking about both techniques.
from what i gather welding 2 inches at a time is gonna cause warpage. you need to make small tacks very far apart and let cool before you tack again
there should be no "pushing or pulling" with the weld when welding patches don't run a bead it will get warped if you are using a mig. do tack welds about every 3-6" then go back and forth to let it cool down take it slow. and if you see a high or low spot bust out the hammer and dolly and nock it flat before you tack that spot. take some time learning on some s**** first
small tacks like this, then repete until the whole edge is covered and there are no pinholes in between the tacks then grind down the weld. heat is your worst enemy when your welding patches tack ,tack ,tack , count to 10 then tack, tack ,tack count to 10 and so on
You SHOULD be worried about rust! You will get rust in there if it's not sealed. I would also recommend the **** weld for this reason. Rather this is a driver, show car, build and sell, whatever... take your time and do it right. Strive to do the best you can. Don't go with the at***ude that this is your first time and you will feel lucky if you get it together. Not good! We are all here to help, ask questions, do it right. You do not want to do this over if you don't have to. Learning is good and is the key to this hobby and it will make you a better builder in the end and the car WILL reflect that in the end as well. There is tons of info here and on the net on how to weld patch panels. If you do your research and take your time, I am confident that you will come out with great looking doors! Keep us posted! Keep the questions coming. These guys are on track with some great advice for you already!
Cut the "amateur-hour" flanges off. Measure very carefully and cut a 1/16th below your mark with a 1/32" zip cut on a right angle die grinder. Sneak up on a perfect **** weld seam, by careful zip grinding and hand filing. When you're ready to weld, lay one good tack followed by a firm smack while still red hot with a flat faced body hammer backed by a dolly whose crown matches the door skin. Repeat.......... damn slowly.
Thanks for the advice. I didn't realize that folks are using tacks. I was going to do that at first, but then I thought maybe the was not a good technique. Now I am glad I asked first.
Yes, you need to cut off the overlap flange. If the panel needs to be hammered after welding you won't be able to do it with a double layer of metal. Check out my door patches using said panel clamps... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214033 Also, if your changing the inner(also available) only cut out one at a time so you can use the other as a position reference.
What I do is make a tack say every 2 inches or so to start. Once it cools some I tack on the bottom of my first tack, then the bottom of my second, and so on. Just keep leapfroggin yourself. This way not only does it keep you from just randomly jumping around, it helps the welds become more solid. When you randomly tack places on the panel, you end up with small pinholes in the seam that you missed which makes for more girinding, more welding, and more of a chance to warp it.
also the nicer you get you gap and the panel lined up to the original door the nicer your metal will be in the end take your time watch your heat and tack tack tack you will eventually get done lol
also grinder heat will distort your panel too,im a wet rag tacker myself. also undercoat the back of panel when done and clean out your drain holes or make a couple.pore 15 works also,like was said ,take your time
Those cool little braces came from Harbor Frieght? What are they called? Were they in the welding section?
I'm not a pro, but from what I understand (and not saying your technique is wrong) but rapid cooling with air or a wet rag will make the welds brittle when you go to hammer them. Especially when using a MIG welder. Is this true? Someone yelled at me once for doing that. I've left tacks cool on their own naturally ever since.
Also bear in mind that the rust and thin metal goes beyond what you initially see.Dont cut the patch too short. From your pics I'd use all but the flange...
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