Probably A Dumb Idea...But I'm Intrigued......

Hey! I'm a newbie here, so don't beat me up!! I have this stupid idea that's been going through my head the past few weeks, and the more I think about it, the more I like it - hoping someone out there can give me the benefit of their experience before I go ape s*&t on this one....OK, here it is.....My inlaws have a '64 Caddy they may send to the boneyard. It's not that terrible, hasn't run & been sitting indoors for the past 20 years (no rust, needs paint & some chrome, & minor interior type work) Only thing - the block cracked while sitting. Now here's where it gets wierd - one of my buddies has an old pickup with a Chevy 6.2 diesel that runs great, only body wise, it's rust city. I've heard that the 6.2 diesel is a bolt for bolt swap for the 350 and can bolt right up in Chevy big block applications. How difficult (or impossible) would it be to yank the 429 and throw in the 6.2? I've seen '63/64 Caddies with 350s in them, so I'm thinking it might be do-able. Best part is, I can rig up the diesel to burn old fryer oil from my friend's pizza joint (been running my '85 Mercedes on old oil for 2 years now, works great) so if the conversion can be pulled off, I'd be left with a nice big luxi-boat that gets mid 20's mileage, and doesn't cost a dime to run.......seems like a neat idea - ideas? comments? anyone? thanks!

 

If you can confirm the bellhousing bolt pattern and crank/torque converter/starter fit hardware, I'd say go for it. Can't beat the price and the fuel strategy.

 

Isn't it against the law to run fryer oil? I seem to recall someone mentioning something about taxes and such...

 

More than likely, I'd pull the tranny also, to gain the benefit of overdrive. Diesels do NOT like high revs, so overdrive would probably be a good idea. (although I'd bet those old Caddies are geared way down (like 2:70something) since those old big blocks had torque out the you-know-what! I'm more concerned about motor mounts, tranny cross members, etc. While I've yanked a couple motors, I never really got involved with heavy duty frame welding and fabrication stuff. If it's fairly bolt-in, I'm OK. My friend welds and can move motor mounts, but cross members, etc is another story! Thanks for your help!

 

I've heard that that the DOT is going after mainly commercial truckers for road tax evasion or some such nonsense. Here in NY (the Liberal paradise, but let's not go politics here) things are pretty screwed up as far as diesels go. Ready for this one? You can no longer buy a new diesel car in NY, due to EPA mandate. If I went to the VW guy up the block, and said "Sell me one of those Jetta diesels that get 55 MPGs" He'd say "Nope, can't do it" YET if I go to the Dodge guy and say "gimmee one of those twin turbo Cummins Ram Charger pickups that get 12 MPGs" He'd say "How many do you want, it's a truck, that diesel thing doesn't apply" Now here's where it really gets screwed up....If I called my friend in PA, and told him to buy that Jetta, bring it up here, and sell it back to me, NOW I can register it, as since it was previously registered to him, it's a used car! and therein lies the reason why I want to put my butt back in another old car.....I have enough BS to deal with in my life, can I please at least keep my car simple? You gotta admit, new cars are taking the tech thing waaayyyy too far!

 

If you don't wind up doing anything with it, I'll gladly come get it before the crusher gets it. I really miss my 63. On the flip side, I doubt it would be too much trouble for you to do the engine/tranny swap, but you will more than likely have to get another driveshaft, and have to rework tha trans X-member.

 

no its not as your not into massive production ---- you probably can consume less than 55 gallons a week, where in my case i go through 85 gallons + a day




as far as the 6.2 i would rethink that idea and do your home work as for a few years with the gm 6.2 they had massive problems with their engines that they never did fix make sure to check the year of the motor and the years of the issues of them blowing up


other than that great idea

 

Only if you use it for pizza delivery.

 

perfectly legal!! i say do it!!!

 

Why not! If that's what's in your budget...go for it!

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'd do it.

 

I like your line of thinking...and your resourcefulness...assuming you get this done and running, and overcome the 6.2L's shortcomings...do you plan to keep this car forever? I can't imagine being able to easily unload a car like that...especially in NY...It would probably be wiser to source another 429 and keep it original, since from your description it's a decent base to work with...but it's your car...I'm just thinking out loud here.

I did think this was pretty cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9--ISeNexM

 

You'll need the diesel 700R4, or plan to have one built for the torque the 6.2 puts out. Outside of that it should be as simple as making mounts for it - and you may want to adapt the radiator over with it. The only major disadvantage is power-wise it will be like it had a 305 in it - and you can't rev the 6.2 past 3600 RPM, the one I have is goverened to prevent you from making it fly apart that way.

The trans I pulled out of my parts truck has a mount that attaches to the top rear of the case, a thick steel strap that bends around and back and has a pad on the bottom of the case - this besides the mount these Chevy trucks actually use, further ahead on the bottom of the trans. It would be fairly easy to make something to use the holes for that mount and position it to whatever the stock trans uses for a mount.

If anything I'd think it would improve resale value if you can claim a '64 Caddy that gets an honest 25 MPG (which should be possible with a C-code intake and IP and the OD). And the black smoke out the exhaust is fun, too.

 

From what I read in your post you are doing what hot rodder's have been doing from the very start.... that is to build a car using what you can to make it work. Heck! You just might be a trend setter!

 

I wouldn't think it'd be illegal - hell, it's already been taxed for use in the business, and now it's being used as converted waste products.

Charging/taxing it again would be like putting a tax on the feed for cattle and then charging again to use the bullshit for fertilizer!

 

LOVE that diesel Monte!!! A guy I went to school with had an '84 Monte with the 350 diesel. Believe it not, he never had any major problems with it (outside of a tranny, it was the 700A4 thing) and piled up about 125,000 on it. Granted, for a real diesel like a Mercedes 240 or a Cummings, 125 is just broken in, but for a crappy 5.7 diesel, that's pretty impressive. Heard the later 5.7s were actually halfway decent and a lot of the bugs were finally worked out, but by that point, the damage was done and no one cared anymore. Not sure what year the 6.2 is - I think it's like a '91. I heard the 6.2s were kind of like the 5.7s - crappy at the beginning, but the later ones were OK. Unlike the 5.7s though, the 6.2s were designed as diesels from the get go. They were made by Detroit Diesel, and not a GM converted block.

 

Not crazy at all, I think it'd be a great project. Do keep in mind that the Cadillac will have the switch-pitch hydro in it so you need to swap out the motor and transmission, plus probably rework the driveshaft. If you can handle that, then I'd say go for it.

I'm a big fan of diesel cars, I'm waiting for the snow to melt so I can get my 220D back on the road.

 

Lots of good info in the 6.2 forum here:

www.thedieselplace.com

 

Do it!

 

What say I paint it black, throw on a set a big ass lake pipes, and call it th FatMobile.....da na na na naaaa na FAT MAN

 

Some real detailed info here:
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=139003&highlight=diesel

 

429 is a BOP bolt pattern. If the 6.2 fits on a Chevy small block/Big block then it wont fit the Caddy transmission. I'd grab the trans and engine and install both, or find a 500 cid Cadillac engine. Easier to find and big on torque.

 

If thats what you want, i'd do it. Wish my burb ran on deep fat oil and I could get my hands on some. If I fill my suburban up and it is pretty low on gas it cost me $145. I get about 12 mpg around town. OUCH!

 

Like others have said, you NEED the 700R4 built to go behind the 6.2. Preferably built with the last revisions to the input shaft, main shaft, front pump, and all the other crap that I broke my 84 Suburban before the new parts were avaliable.

I loved my 6.2 Suburban, lots of people hated them and/or think they blow up. Carryover from the 350 diesel I guess. I'd suspect you could get outstanding mileage out of one in a Caddy.

 

I've been planning out a build to throw a 6.5 into my 58 chevy. It does not seem to be that bad. Trany, Driveshaft and Crossmember is all it really seams to be. The VWO conversion on those motors is pretty simple. Good luck tell me how you did it when your done.

 

It was touched on in some of the prev posts. The diesel automatics are made heaver and dont use modulators since they dont have manifold vacuum. Also the power brakes on diesels works fron the power steering pump. I have a olds 350 deisel if fuel gets much higher i think i will try to do something similar with it OldWolf

 

O.W. is right. You will need the steering/brake system from the truck. This is the trickiest part if I were to guess. You might have to have hoses made going from the o ring style to the sae flare on the original caddy steering. Other than that you will be fabbing mounts etc. Not hard. You already mentioned the trans from the rusty truck. I have a 6.2 with a Banks stinger kit in my Suburban. It has 300k on it and its still running strong. I really can't bitch too much about the power. The stock 6.2 is going to be a bit slow, but WTF. go for it.

 

Do it to it brother!
Sounds friggin' sweet!

 

The 429 trans is not BOP, it is a unique bolt pattern - '64-'67 429 only, as far as I know. It is definitely not BOP or Chevy.
We have adapters for putting the 429 trans behind a 500 (which is a BOP pattern), and for putting a Chevy trans behind a 429 engine. In both cases, the adapter has a total of 12 bolt holes as NONE of the 6 bolt holes line up with the other side. And no, we don't make an adapter for putting a Chevy engine in front of the 429 trans.
I believe the 6.2 is a standard Chevy pattern, unlike most other DD engines, which were either BOP or commercial bolt patterns.
The 6.2 is not the one that had a problem with blowing up. The earlier 6.5 was the pile of crap, corrected by it's replacement by the 6.2.
There are several hundred thousand guys like me who have depended on the reliability of the 6.2 for our lives, and not been let down.
As for civilian 6.2s, the biggest cause of engine failure is caused by sudden over-rev too fast for the governor the moderate, due to failure of the 700R4. The 700R4 is fine behind stock 80's smallblocks, V6s, etc, but has no business behind any engine with any real power.
You will run into a few issues with the conversion.
1: weight. The 429 is not a big block. It weighs much less then the 6.2. Yes, it will lower the car, but it will also make it ride like crap.
2: Motor mounts will be interesting. Cadillac has the mounts at the front of the engine. I've never seen a Chevy swap into a 60's Cadillac that didn't look like a hack job. The '64-older X-frame cars would be easier than the '65-up perimiter frames.
3: Speaking of X-frame - if your tranny tailshaft extends into the 'X' frame, you have to pull the engine to get to the trans. With a 700R4, in a car that heavy with an engine that torquey, you WILL be pulling the trans periodically for repair, unless you baby it.
4: engine height. Before you even bother starting, if you aren't interested in a hole in the hood, measure the engine from shallow end of the oil pan to the highest point. Measure the car from the top of the cross member to the inside of the hood. The 6.2 is a pretty tall engine. They only came in trucks, where you can fit a blower under the hood with a gas engine. The caddy has a really low hood line.

I do agree with Rabid on one thing - the 500 is a far better choice. But you gots what you gots. Document the swap as a how-to and post it. If nothing else, you get points for your grande huevos.

 

OH yeah - steering and brakes.
Steering - stock Caddy steering is fine.
Brakes:
The truck has hydroboost. Some Caddies did, too (some limos and other commercials). The hydroboost booster is physically interchangeable, but you may have to screw with mounting bolt holes, etc. Use the truck master cylinder, which is of the front disc / rear drum style, and fits the hyro-booster. Now you need the power steering pump with the extra port. The chevy truck steering pump can be adapted to a Caddy bracket, but you may have to use the Caddy reservoir, as well. The line fitting is also different. The pulley mounting is also different, but if you get a pump without reservoir for an old enoug Chevy truck w/ hydroboost, so that you get the keyway style shaft, you can use the Caddy reservoir, pulley, bracket, and maybe the lines as is.
Once you have the hydroboost solved, there is the issue of brakes. The stockers are not very good by modern standards, and with a few hundred extra pounds on the nose, it could be downright scary. If you can find a '67-'70 RWD Caddy with factory disc brakes, they are a direct bolt on by changing the spindles. You may have to use the later model tie rod ends as well. The '71-'73 setup may be a bolt-on, but to make the '74-'76 setup work, you have to use tie rod ends for a Ford somethin'-or-other. Don't forget to change the flex hoses, proportioning valve, etc. too.