So yeah. My 54 coupe deville restoration is going well. This would have been a well kept original if it werent for the poor job they did on the engine rebuild, and the rust on the rear frame. But thats ok though. I took care of the engine. Runs beautifully now. But im moving on to the suspension. Im still faced with the decision of either cutting the frame from where the rust begins and starting new. Or starting completely new with a rust free frame from a cali caddy. Someone on here offered me a rolling ch***is completely rust free for 400 dollars. I should add that I plan on having the car tunneled and then bagged to lay frame all around. Figured since im getting all of this done. Go big or go home ^_^ Im still fairly new to all this. My first oldie. My first restoration. I dont want it to be my first f*%kup =) Help me out here guys =/
so your frame is rusty and you can get one for 400.00 whats the problem? i doubt caddy frame are that plentyful.
my advice: go for the $400 clean frame apply logic (not being a smart*** here) the frame fits the car...the custom frame will fit the car after you spend hours upon hours making it right, true and square possibly farking it up somewhere along the way, having to tear the affected area back out and start over....not that fabbing a new frame wouldnt be bad***...buuuutttt I'm all for cutting and welding but if a cheap price on a good part is lookin me in the face that will save me gobs of time, I'd go that route yup clean frame in my book
Advice from a guy that does frame rust repair for a living: If you have access to a good rust free frame, get it and s**** the old one! If your original frame is rusted bad enough to be rusted through at the rear, I suspect it is also junk at the firewall kick out. Rust is a car's form of cancer, to remove it you need to cut it completely out and replace it, but unfortunately, you can't see what is inside in other places. If you are restoring this car, swap out the frame and it done right. Gene
My dad always said "any job worth doing is worth doing right" and the right way is almost never the easy way, and a bunch of other **** that usually made me stop listening
and it says FNG under your name...****ING NEW GUY maybe you oughta watch things around here for a bit before you start snapping at guys who've been around awhile and have contributed worthwhile input to the site. what have you done? oh yeah, you asked a no-brainer question that doesn't apply to tech week (you do know how to read since you filled out the reg form) about doing non-traditional stuff on a traditional forum and you didn't bother to use the search function. way to go man, i'm sure you'll feel welcome. twerp
I wasnt snapping. I was being honest. Could have been less of a smart ***. Are you that sensitive on here? If that isnt aloud then so be it. If it was a no brainer question then youre calling the nice guys that gave me proper advice dumb***es. Correct? If anything youre the one out of line for calling me names when all I did was ask for non-sarcastic credible advice. I wasnt trying to be rude but you sure the hell were. Thank you to the posters who gave their valid input. Sincerely appreciate it. Ill keep you posted on the progress.
to be perfectly fair, i only called you one name. the FNG thing is a little diddy called an acronym. you don't want sarcasm you're in the wrong place. for the advice, how could it even be a question on using the whole frame or just replacing the rusted part? i challenge you to build a funtional front clip for under $400. even if you didn't use the entire frame you could have the front piece and put that onto your existing frame and voila, easy and relatively proper fix. if you are channeling though, the body is coming off the frame (unless you know some laws of physics that i don't) which only furthers the pointless nature of thinking of just repairing the frame when a good total replacement is available. logic just aint logical anymore i guess...
Info for the FNG. You're gonna get sarcastic and smart*** replies. It's part of the unwritten rules around here. And it's in full effect, ESPECIALLY when dealing with new people. Ain't a lot of PC happy touchy feely goodness around here, so you're either gonna have to grow thicker skin or quit askin questions, your choice. BTW, buy the new frame.
Lol. I dont mind the sarcasm. Just that it was right off the bat and I was hoping for more of a helpful reply to start off. Its cool though. No hard feelings. I know what the logical choice would be. But the shop I take it too has been insistent on repairing the existing frame. Which is why I looked for the second opinion on here =) And I got it. And it was the one I was looking for. p.s. You called me a twerp ^_^ Its aight though. We're still cool. Thanks again fellas!
If your not doing the frame swap yourself, I can see where some shops may want to "fix" your frame. A frame swap is huge work because you need to basicily dis***emble the car completely. Some places simply do not have the time, space, or equipment to do a frame swap. On top of that, it would be a bit pricy. There is a big difference between "I'm going to do something" and "I have to pay someone to do something." You will find that most guys here think along the "I'm going to do this myself" and give advice along those lines. Nothing wrong with either approch, but you will get better info being clear which way things have to happen up front. There is a reason I do frame rust repair. Patching a frame probably will cost between $500 and $1,000 depending on how bad it is and where the problem is. A frame replacement starts at around $2,000 and goes up (often WAY up) from there. When you patch a frame, you repair a specific area and the car remains pretty much intact. When you replace the frame, since everything comes off the frame, you need to determine what stuff is going back on the new frame and what will be replaced. Doesn't make a lot of sence to replace a frame and reinstall a wore out drive train, a ****py interior, and rusted body pannels. If you really are "restoring" the car that is all mute because everything will be refurbished. If your restoring the car, replace the frame. If your "fixing up" the car, repairing the frame may be the direction you need to go. You need to decide how much money you have to spend and how long you want to keep the car. I would give some serious thought to spending $20K on a car you plan on keeping for a couple years. Also give serious thought to doing a $1,000 patch on a car you plan on keeping for 25 years. If it were my car in my shop, I would replace the frame without any thought. But since its your car in someone else's shop, the decision is not as clear cut. Funding and desire are not always on par with each other. Gene
Even if you don't do a full frame swap, buy the frame anyways. It will be easier to swap even the back half of the frame and weld the middle together, than to try to replace it with something else or fabricate new pieces. Can you replace just frame sections? I've seen it done, we had a '54 Buick here that had the rear wheel arch cut out and replaced with one from some other GM car. But it was never finished and the new frame section rotted out on the bottom in the meantime.
Go with the replacement frame. You can't get a lot done to the old one for that 400 and as 50Dodge4X4 said, if it is bad in that area it is pretty suspect in the other area also. You shoud be able to get a lot done to the replacement frame before you swap it in too.
Well thats the thing. The shop I go to quoted me at over 8 grand to do the frame work alone. I plan on tunneling and bagging in the process. That seemed just so steep to me. I thought swapping the frame just seemed less time consuming and more cost effective. I need to sit down with them and ween out all of the options and decide on it.
I dont think its patchwork if the rear part of the frame is nearly completely rusted through. I mean they literally said they have to cut that portion of the frame out and build a tubular frame from there. C notch and all that. So all in all. Here in Cali. How many hours of labor go into swapping out a frame? Or doing what I stated above? Someone earlier made a valid point that stuck out in my mind. What if they ****up and have to start over. Or there rust in other aspects of the frame. When the work is done. I just want peace of mind more than anything else.
You have several issues going on here. 1) your cars frame is rusted out ( gone?) from the rear axle back. That is major. 2) you have a frame available that is in good original condition, but you want it modified. 3) You have planed on modifing the car's floor pans as well. 4) you are paying someone to do the job, which is always more costly then doing it your self. Please bear in mind, its a long way from CA to where I am in IL. I will not insert prices, different areas have different prices for the same quality work. On top of that I really have no idea what needs to be done with your car, or what they plan on doing to it. I can't see your car from here. Since your frame is rotted away and you plan on modifing it anyway, replacing it with a good original might be like cutting off both your legs because one foot hurts, then cutting off the foot that didn't hurt and putting in on the replacement leg. Just might not make much sence. If the plan was to cut off your rusted rear frame and building a replacement with the modificaions you desire built in, then adding that to your also modified front frame, that could be the best way to go. Since you are also modifing he floor pan also, the shop can build the rear clip and modify the body at the same time. It would be more cost effective. Several years ago I did a rear cilp on a rotted out 70s Nova. Built the rear clip, redid the interior floor pans, the trunk pan, and rear wheel wells but did not do any modifications to the front end. The guy furnished the parts, and the car went out the door as a roller still needing some stuff done, when the money ran out. Labor on the Nova was right at 100 hours, and it sounds like you looking a several more hours of work there. This sounds a lot different then when I started, eh? See why we need the whole story to give good advice? A good plan may still be to get the replacement frame, do the desired modifications, then build your "new" car on top of that solid, modified frame. I suspect that process will make the $8,000 sound pretty cheap, but when your done, you will know what you have. Gene
My advice- Buy the frame. Measure it 14.5 times to make sure it's the same Blast it, paint it, bag it. Put your car on stands and start moving stuff across. Be prepared to cough up several hundred worth of bolts to put the car back together Be prepared to sand and paint inaccessible areas of the floorpan when it's off the frame. Your car will move to a whole new level of cleanliness that it'll never reach with a rusty patched frame.
So, have you gotten the frame yet. I want to see pictures of the Caddy. BTW, you can get rid of the FNG by posting or becoming an Alliance member. I recommend both.
Havent purchased the frame yet. I need to decide what im going to do here. Its 50/50 with the advice given. Everyone has valid points. Here are some pictures of my 54.
honestly - speaking from advice - buy the new frame, and while it isnt under your car, put on your airbag system.. because it is ALOT easier to do without working around a car... and after you have your new frame the way you like it... plop the body onto it.. and walla! new car WITH brand new suspension.. the fine tuning goes from there!
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