I have a Edmunds 2x2 with "olds 49-53" cast on the underside. I have a mint 41,000 mile 1955 324 with the #8 heads like it should have. The Edmunds is too narrow to reach the head width. I have a pic of a 32 from M*** that uses 2 flat aluminum 1/4" spacers under the manifold. Problem is that I think the owner said it was a 371 with 1956 #10 heads...not sure about the 371 part. My manifold does not look like someone machined off 1/4" off the runner flanges....and why would anyone even need to do that? I read every Rocket thread here, and the info is sketchy like "manifolds should fit" "maybe need some port matching". There is also a pic of a NOS edelbrock 3x2 with the original box lable that shows it fits "54-56 olds". That is on the "ultimate rocket thread" here. Does it mean that it won't "bolt" to a 303, or does edelbrock mean that because the head ports are much smaller on the 303, that you should not use this 54-56 manifold with the bigger runners? So, my question is: Has anybody here actually tried to take a manifold off of a 324 olds, and tried to see if it is too wide to fit between the heads on a 303?
what are the measurements of the intake you have? i'll go measure some stuff i have around here,i'm pretty sure i have a 303,324,and 371 factory intake.
is it possible you have a later block under the '55 heads? what year is the stock intake you took off?
Tell me where to measure it I would think to flip it upside down to try to get a center to center on the R to L runner bolt holes? If you have a 303 AND a 324, I would think you easily tell if one was wider; it's pretty obvious because it's not just a 1/8"...it's a lot.
Oh, now I gotta see if I can find a thread on casting numbers on intakes? or try to find the engine number chart by Don_Wow Ok, I will get a block number. The stock intake is a 2bbl iron. Car was a plain jane 2dr post, so maybe a lower HP motor without the 4bbl? The donor car was hit when almost new and stored all this time. I suppose it could be messed with, but??
The heads from 49-56 all bolted to the to the 303's. The only difference between the 303 and the 324 block was the cylinder bore I thought. I thought the blocks were all the same accept the bore. I don't think it will work to bolt the 56' 324 heads to the 371 block. I would think that the intake manifolds would bolt up to the heads.
Oh 56' #10 heads have larger ports and the 56 manifold with larger ports should fit fine. Are you sure you don't have a Cadillac manifold?
Measured center to center across the front two bolt holes on a stock 303 2bl and an edelbrock 4x2. They both are at 12". I've got #8 heads on a punched 303 block and there is no problem with the stock '55 4bl manifold fit so the 303 and 54/55 blocks are the same deck height. I believe the '56 block is also the same deck height as the 54/55 but the 371 is a higher deck.
I ended up measuring the total width because my problem is that the very tops of the runner ports on the heads are not 100% covered...like it's too narrow. It barely covers the tops and one pair of runners you could slip a razor blade in the gap. Even with thick non-steel gaskets, it will never work. So I laid the intakes on a flat surface but on 90* edge. Measured up to the top of the runners. 324 iron was 13-3/8" Edmunds is 12-7/8". That's my problem, I need at least 1/4" or 3/8" more width to get a good seal on the tops of the runners. The bolts all line up and the angles of the gasket surface looks right. Stock metal gaskets are still in place. But the inside length measurements of the 303 runners/ports are 1-3/4" tall and the 324 is 2". If Edmunds had added more material, I would not have a problem. Not sure how to fix this.
Bobert is correct from 303-324 same deck height just different bore, 371 blocks are slightly taller. Earlier heads will bolt up to a 371 block, just as 57-58 heads will bolt up to the earlier blocks. which I have seen cause this same dilemma before. Also bear in mind a 53' intake will have smaller runners than #8 heads want so that may not be the best intake for it. As far as machining goes on intakes I've only seen people do it to J2 3x2(57-58) intakes to fit on earlier and narrower engines. I can't imagine why someone would do it to your 2x2? Don't worry though, I'll bet any minute now Yorgatron will get to the bottom of this mystery for you.
Years ago I got a 2X4s manifold for a 303 Olds. I was running later heads 55-56. I found a good welder and he added 1/4 or so to the top of the manifold runners. I filed the manifold flat and ran it for years. I may have made thicker gaskets to be sure of the seal. Yes, the ports did not match. Pete
i think what you need is a set of cylinder heads with smaller intake ports off of a 303,later manifolds like the Edelbrock OL396 have extra meat on the runners so you can open'em up for use on later heads. or sell or trade away the manifold you have now,there's still plenty of Olds manifolds out there.
anyways that's the pic of how far it is off. The bottom & sides of the gaskets fit fine but the top 99% of the original gasket is sticking out. As Pete just said, adding a 1/4" would be needed. I don't know if you can see the adapter plates on this Olds with Edmunds. On further thoughts, I think this IS a 371 with 371 heads.
The answer is it was made for a 49-53 ---324 heads have taller ports. Those 303 intakes are kinda like a check valve--lol- can't go up on later heads, but the 324 and 371 intakes can go down on early heads. Hoging out the early heads to match the later intakes is no sweat--but adding material to the 303 intake like Pete said is a bit more h***le to get enough to cover the taller ports on the 324 . The angle between the banks is the same on all 303-394. AND ,yes a 371 will go on a 303 or 324 by simply enlarging the bolt holes in the intake.
If you have enough piston to valve clearance,you might be able to mill your heads enough to close your intake to head gap and get a weak(?) seal. As the head surface is removed,the center of the intake port moves down toward the center of the engine. .060 off the heads might be enough(~1/16"). The heads are probably thick enough to mill them .100-.125 but that will be a lot of compression for stock cast pistons. The stock style pistons often crack where the wrist pin boss attaches to the piston skirt.
Don, you are a wealth of information I don't have any 324 heads or motors but I do have a couple 303 motors and intakes to fit both 303s and 324s here are a few shots of intakes 3x2 and 4x2 for both motors you can clearly see the taller ports for the 324 and extra meat on the 303s to allow them to work on the later heads whether run as is or hogged out to match. also a couple shots of a Horne intake, 303 only flanges clearly shorter than the others
More info? I have a 55 324 in the garage with # 8 heads on it. I too have a 2x2 Edmunds intake with the same 49-53 cast on the bottom but when I put the intake on my block it lines up perfect I also have the # 10 heads. I have not tried the intake on them. Maybe you have a ****py manifold? I bought a Offy 6 years ago that was total **** and needed a lot of work to make right. Just a thought. If I can help in anyway let me know. Measurements....etc.
Thanks Paul, for doing the photo displays. I can see the difference in what you have for manifold ports and head design, compared to mine. My manifold just won't work without plates, and like Don said, the runners are too small (even if I did make plates). There is a different style of Edmunds 2x2 Olds on ebay ending in an hour or so; I wonder if it was made for 324's? 7&7: Does your 303 Edmunds fit better that this: I could use a measurement of the total width on yours. I stood mine on edge and measured upwards, rather that trying to lay a tape across it.
do your bolt holes line up? if they do then plates will of course make them misalign. material will have to be added to the top of the manifold ports, like Pete said above. that is if you are dead set on using this 2x2 intake
Someone did make plates for this kind of a problem. I saw them advertised in a late 50s / early 60s era magazine. They are not flat, though, they are slightly wedge shaped. Some HAMBer on a Rocket engine thread from a few years ago said he had a set.
Yes it fits just like it should the runners are aligned and the bolt holes are dead nuts. The intake I have has individual runners.I know the sharpie says 49-55 but it is cast 49-53 on the bottom.
Ok I just went out and looked again and I also put some manifold gaskets in and yes I have a little bit of gasket sticking out of the top of the intake like in your pics but not nearly as bad. The runners on my #8 heads are bigger than the intakes. If you look at the pics of my manifold you can see a ton of meat around the intake runners. Is your intake the same? I would be confident that my intake would seal when put together. Very odd.. Maybe some spacers are in order for your intake. It beats the price of finding a new one. Or what the hell find some early heads. They are easier to find than the intakes. But you will go down on compression a tad.
Yes, they line up, but there is some room in the holes to maybe get away with 1/8" plates I think. I am not dead set on keeping this intake, but I sure don't want to pick the wrong type of intake as far as how many carbs, like 2-Fours, 4-twos, 6-twos, etc. I could use some thoughts on which way to go with this motor & car. A light steel hiboy, stick trans, 3.50ish gear, 324 cube, but a healthy cam: 275 dur, with 570 lift. What I need help with is driveability, not getting the last bit of high rpm power for racing. I thought my 2 Stromerg AAV-26 (used on straight 8 Buick dual carbs) would be much better than 6-twos or 2-fours. I like tinkering with multiple carbs, that's not a problem. I would think 4-twos would be much better than 6-twos on 324 size? I know a tripower is easiest, but as always, looking for something different. What about the small interior runners in the Edmunds 303? If I dare compare the 325hp 396 BBC oval-small port with good low-mid drivability, VS the 375hp 396 rectangular port(reputed to have poor drivability), with it's stiff cam, with poor low rpm runner velocity & cam vacuum? Or, am I off in left field?... would the small Edmunds runners help with the cam I have on Low to Mid drivability? any thoughts would be great. I just hate to grab a pricey "wrong" set-up off ebay.
My manifold looks to be the same except I "think" I have a thinner wall at the tops of the runners compared to the one in the pic you have with it upside down. I'll take a pic today of the same view. I read where Eddie used every casting foundry on the west coast, so maybe I have one made with slightly different runner core plugs that were used during casting. Can you measure it, standing up 90* on it's side, to get a somewhat accurate width? Thanks. I'll try to remember to put up a pic of that way-different Edmunds 2x2 from ebay, also.
Here is the one from ebay. It's way different, webbed runners, plus "Edmunds Custom" instead of just "Edmunds" script
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