advice on welding brackets to rear end housing

Just like the ***le says. Any pointers, pitfalls or useful advice would be great. I'm about to wrap this puppy up and this is the last bit of welding to comlete the ch***is.

Muchos gracias

 

I asume you're talking about your coil over brackets or spring perches? Both use about the same amount of weld..I tack just inside of 4 corners on eack bracket, then weld in 1/4ths...i/e looking straight at it...top right 1/2 way down, bottom left half way down, bottom right 1/2 way down, top right.

Some ones gonna jump in here and tell you to mount it all up in a jig, but I never warped one enough to ever have a concern

 

my boss and fab instructor always told me to weld a inch at a time, then wait till it cools. you dont want to take any risk of warping the housing which could lead to alot of other problems down the road with bearings and axles, and leaks.
so weld an inch on the driver side and an inch on the p***enger side. then wait like 30 minutes, go do something else. then come back and weld another inch on each side. and wait to cool.

 

***uming I weld an inch at a time, and let it cool, do I resume welding where I left off or should I weld opposite to the previous weld to "even things out?
Thanks

 

need to no all kinds of info . what kind of housing if its thin like a banjo mybe it mit warp , what kind of welder mig , tig , arc , what brackets , like ladder bar brackets i weld a spacer in between the to plates to keep them in place so they dont spread apart after i tack them where they go, if its a ford 9 inch or somthing beefy tack it in place really good and weld it up , your not going to warp it ,

 

I beg to differ....every time you weld an inch and then let cool and then weld another inch and let cool you only accelerate the shrinkage effects of welding which leads to INCREASED distortion....EVERY time metal is heated and allowed to cool it shrinks and repeating the process repeatedly only accelerates the metal shrinkage repeatedly...

There is only one way to control distortion in this cir***stance where a strong continuous weld is required (this situation differs from welding thin body sheet metal); here is how to proceed:

1) first prepare your brackets by bevelling w/a hand grinder 30 deg.
from each side meeting at the center forming a distinct 'V' shape.
this "V" will keep the weld filler material close to the 'neutral axis' of the bracket and will minmize the width of applied filler metal and narrow up the shrinkage zone considerably.

1) position and tack your axle brackets into place with a good firm weld at the termination point at each end where the bracket forms a corner and weld only across the termination point and slightly around the corner....

2) take an oxyacetylene torch w/a rosebud tip and preheat the cir***ference of the axle housing to create a band about 1 1/2" wide
that glows dull red in a full circle around the housing in the bracket area. That will pre-expand the weld zone....and allow for even cooling.

3) immediately weld into the "V" on either side of a bracket a bead around 1" long working from the center out and s***ch weld the same bracket working from left to right side; a weld at a time' center out.
Don't let the weld zone cool off...keep welding and keep the heat in!

4) once the bracket on one side of housing is fully welded; immediatel take the torch and re-heat around the full cir***ference of the housing to a dull cherry red the same 1 1/2" band and allow to slowly cool in still air...that will stress-relieve the weld zone and minimize the effects of weld shrinkage....

5) Then do the bracket on the other side of the housing with similar proceedure....

DO NOT weld the bracket w/out prepping the edge into a full "V" shape.....if you simply run a 90 deg. fillet weld you will increase the area of filler material shrinkage distanced from the neutral axis and enhance distortion....

This is real tuff for me to explain only in writing.....controlling distortion due to weld shrinkage is something that is only learned by a great deal of experience...I hope you can get the gist of things by my reply....

Tomorrow if time allows I will scan some info from my instruction book on controlling weld distortion and add it to this post....but if I am challenged and contradicted by amateur response to this I will not bother....Dustyrustee

 

Love it. Ya cannot argue with five or six Journeyman tickets.

 

Welding is cool.

 

All of the above is good info.

If youre weldng brackets on a diff housing and dont have a jig, fully ***emble the rear end and then weld the brackets on.

The ***embled rear end will also help reduce hoyusing warpage. By ***embled, I mean centre and axles bolted into the housing.

Rat

 

Dustyrustee, on the spring perches where the weld is almost limited to one side, would you just "vee" the weld side and leave the inside alone? It sounds like your method was geared toward four link style brackets with accesibility to both sides. Thanks!

 

can this all be done with a complete rear axle ***embly, then do a fluid swap afterwards? Or do the axles, etc need to be removed...

 

Thanks DustyRustee: Your information is much appreciated and in line with what some professional welders have told me before. Thanks for your post - it helps all of us.

We're going to be welding spring & shock hangers on a Q.C. housing that is made of .187 DOM tubing - 3" diameter. Also, the Mark Williams big Ford ends need to be done as well. We were planning on doing the bearing ends first, then ***embling the rear end with an alignment bar (picks up all four bearing locations) - before we weld the spring hangers, radius rod hangers and shock hangers. Is this the order that you'd do things in, or would you do the bearing ends last?

PS: The guy doing this welding is professionally certified and does lots of dragster ch***is fabrication work (I'm sure he'll know anyway - but thought I'd ask). Your answers will help not only me, but the others who might be reading.

Thanks!

 

when i build a axle ,i tack the bracket in four places ,remeasure then weld it up then start on the next.

 

Dustyrustee pretty much explained it the way I have always done it on my old roundyrounders with the veeing and preheat. With your deal I believe if you save putting those housing ends on until after you install your brackets then warpage will be of even less concern as your axles will be straight in relation to each other since you'll be essentially jigging the ends when you install them.

Al in CT

 

dustyrustee,
looks like you're a welcome addition here. Thanks for your input - clear, consise, easy to understand and accurate. Looking forward to hear more from you.

 

OHH man you mean those 130 or so rear's Ive done were all wrong?

 

I really appreciate the advice from dustyrustee. I'm getting ready to weld brackets on my banjo and find this info helpful..

This is a great place to be..

 

I usually just weld those ****ers on with one hot continuous bead, then get the axle straightend. Most old axles have a bunch of sag in them, and its only about $80 to get it straightend around here.

I then know I have a strong weld and the axles straight.

 

Thanks for all the great info so far. Dustytree, thanks for the extra pointers, very easy to understand. BTW the housing is a'57 chevy, I'm welding spring hangers as well as ladder bar brackets. For further clarification, Should I leave the axles and center chunk in to help center everything and keep it in line or would it be best to totally dissasembe everything and weld the housing only?

 

Seems like every time you ask five welders a question, you get five answers. And probably a lot of truth in all five.

 

Dusty...thats EXACTLY how I always did it and never had a single issue!

You expand the whole tube equally and then the whole tube contracts equally. Simple.

I welded a set of leaf pads on a removed housing last week...nice and thick tube...figured no sweat. (Got lazy...)
Well, to get good penetration on thick tube requires good heat...the heat was localized...
Result: Slightly bent housing compared to the previous check before welding took place.
I simply ran a bead on the opposite side from the pad...let it contract without quenching...bingo!
Right back where she was prior to the pad welding. I got lucky!
Hit it with the mini-grinder and a quick rub with the 36G sander to get rid of the additional weld bead.

Bottom line...take the time to do it right...FIRST...because LUCK is one ****** to count on when you need it!

 

Yes . . . now that I think about it, it makes total sense to do the bearing ends last - as the 4 bearing plugs (two for the bearing ends and two where the carrier bearings go) and the alignment bar are what insures that everything is on the correct centerline and square to the axle. We'll definitely do them last! Thanks for the input.

 

I'm glad that the question was asked, as I will have to do it at some point. Thanks guys!

 

For those that responded to my tech advice,
I will be happy to respond back in detail to each querrie tomoorow as I have time....

Thanks for positive words from majority of you....happy I did not waste mine...two finger typing takes time....

cheers, Dustyrustee

 

I build rear end housings as a large part of the business in my fab shop, and it amazes me that people don't check to see if their housings are bent or warped before they start welding new brackets on. I have to straighten at least one tube on 99% of the rear end housings that I work on, narrow or rebuild, and both tubes 75% of the time. If there is enough interest, I can do a small tech article showing how I straighten them out.

 

Drive Em, I'd be interested in how you straighten housings, and how you check them for straightness to start.
I've had good luck with Hackerbill's method, running a bead around the side of the housing opposite the welded bracket then grinding it off. To check straightness, I've clamped a straight 3 foot length of square tube to each axle flange, flange in the middle of the tube, then measured between the ends. Rotate square tube 90 degrees, measure again.

 

GREAT advice.....I for one would be interested in your proceedure...
myself, I use an accurate straightedge to find the center of the camber of the bend...chalk the location and heat and shrink w/water quench to draw the tube straight (not applicable for other than low carbon steel though as the quench will zone harden the steel and leave it brittle; but that can be corrected will a further heating operation w/slow cooling to normalize it)

Dustyrustee

 

ABSOLUTELY right way of thinking....do all else first...then do brg. housings last....axle concentricity is paramount to bearing life and safety!!

 

Problem is racer Rick is that if you do it this way, when the axle housing is brought back straight, the brackets that you took the time to align first will move out of alignment as the housing is brought back from crookedness...and then the brackets will have to be re-aligned as well.....

and if you need any form of ***urance that your weld are strong????
I reserve comment on that issue......

 

Devin, leaving the axles in will acheive nothing because of the loose fit of the splines into the carrier....

as for 'center chunk' clean housing flange well and mating surface of 'chunk' and bolt up firm and tight to keep that area relative...AND wrap the tubes adjacent to the center housing with soaking wet towels to prevent heat travel to that area when you preheat for brackets and proceed....

when actually welding, run 1" bead in center of bracket on each side of bracket...THEN start an inch forward of bead end and BACKSTEP weld the next bead on each bracket side towards the terminating end of the last bead and fuse in....then the weld will end up even and smooth without a big lump occuring at each start point from overlap...

By 'backstep' welding, the shrinkage effect will also be further minimized...skip welding and backstep techniques are usually covered in any decent welding/fab text book.....

TOMORROW some time I will scan and post textbook instruction on these proceedures as well as info on proper joint preparation and also on distortion control proceedures that work.....

I will post as a separate topic....watch for it....