Evel's right. But i some would look at it like, either you give your money to Brookville or give it the the sheet metal and body guy that are going to have to piece the hunks of **** together. It's probably comes out the same in the end. But if I had the chance to have a car like 3wLarry's I could care less if it's came right out of Brookville that day.
Actually, if the right deal comes along ... if you can buy a Brookville 3W ... you can buy a Henry Ford 3W. I bought barn fresh one in January of 2005. I did pay more than the 25 grand Brookville gets, But I got a complete 32 Ford minus the engine and transmission. Basically, I bought a rust free, no body damage coupe. If you add up the $$$ value of the frame, hood, fenders, braces, frame horn covers, fuel tank and all the parts that are not included with the Brookville ( that I got with mine ) ... and deduct that from the purchase price, I paid less than 25 grand for the body. Dash, all the garnishes, seat and difficult stuff was there. I did have to BUY a set of arm rests and a ash tray. I used the frame, all the sheet metal and built a 32 DeLuxe coupe ... Now at the painter's ... Disclaimer : It takes a LOT of looking and I even thought I paid too much for it until a few weeks later when I turned down a almost 15 thousand dollar profit with it just washed and cleaned up a little and looking like this I like the Brookville 3W coupe body ... It is fairly close to the Henry version. It is made different, but finished up and with paint on them ... it would be pretty hard to tell the difference. The dash is incorrect and the glove is made different ... but I think they are well worth the money. If you really want one ... there are a few out in public hands, still on shipping pallets, available for about the same $$$ as Brookville wants. SO ... no waiting
Starting with rust free metal is a Big bonus. It will save you money unless you can do the rust repair and purchase replacement panels yourself... Have a look at my ongoing adventures with building a roadster...... http://moes-garage.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!4FC3316B3CBDCA99!3310/ They are not perfect but I am sure I saved many hours of my labor and shop labor. .
I actually GAVE that headlight to someone here on the HAMB. He is in Texas but I do not remember his name. The coupe had a HEAVY 32 front axle and hydraulic brakes ( another HAMBer bought those ). Another HAMBer gets the hood Sold the dash to another HAMBer. The modified firewall now belongs to another HAMB member. That poor coupe has parts and pieces ****tered all over HAMB land. I am keeping what's left
"Starting with rust free metal is a Big bonus." This is true, but is the metal nowadays worst than the metal used in the originals. Correct me if I am wrong but metals that are avaliable reclaimed metal,thus having impurities that may contribute to the integraty of the metal. Again I may be wrong but I do know if this is why our vehicles today will never last as long as an original car.
Moe, I agree with you 100%, and that's why I gave up on finding a decent barn find here in the heart of the Southeast where most of these cars were used up in years past for stock cars on the many ovals tracks around, and the rest were eaten up by acid rain or by some idiot taking off the wheels and letting them sit on the ground till the bottom 12" was nothing but rust. I bought a partially completed Brookville 30/31 roadster and I'm building it the rest of the way to my tastes. Would have liked to build one from scratch with a barn find. But at 70 years old, I had to accept that I might not ever finish it, as time and energy are running out! I bookmarked your site from the link you provided and later I'll get over there and maybe pick up some ideas from yours. Already I see you got the recessed firewall while mine is stock. But the mockup SBC sitting in there now seems to clear OK (gotta set a dist in it soon to check that before I start painting), and at 6'3", I need all the leg room I can get! What I can see about Brookville quality so far seems good. In fact I just can't let such good sheet metal go to waste, and BLACK it's gonna be! Dave
This is maybe like the most retarded argument against a Brookville body that I've ever heard. They're made from 19 Ga AK. I have no idea if it has recycled content. I also don't care. Properly sealed, it'll sit in a bard for a hundred years, just like an original.
You are corrected. Not a criticism, but you apparantly do not have knowledge of how steel is/was made. "back in the day" sheetmetal had no standards of quality control, one batch to the next could be quite different. Today if a maker says it is of a certain grade, it must be exactly that. as for impurities, steel made from recycled metal must meet the formulation for what it is represented as. real-time computer controlled furnaces are adding Alloying elements to control the batch and on and on. plus coatings, alloying for workability, and today's steel is worlds better. don't digress down the made in china **** path, although it is true. Remember the radioactive steel from Mexico?
Original deuce bodys are still out there. Two years ago I bought a sedan body,frame,grill and a bunce of other parts for $1,000. Last year a good friend gave me another deuce sedan body minus doors for free. Last summer I bought a 32 5w on craigslist for $3,500. Body,doors,frame, and some more junk. You just have to hunt and have $$$ ready. I'm waiting to find a 3w next.
If the roadster bodys are any thing like the coupe bodys, I bought two 29 roadsters bodys and loved them. No rust, just sand and paint. There primer job ain't to hot, but it protects them till you get them. Be forwarned, the 32 roadster body had a 2yr waiting list, my first roadster body took 12weeks. But every thing fit like Henry made it. Your probably better of dealing with a Vendor that has one in stock. I delt direct with Brookville. and they made it from my spect list. Nice people.
Like I said I was not sure. But I can tell you this how the hell do the vehicles of today rot out so fast compared to those that were made 50-60 years ago. Especially those cars found here in the rust belt of the US. Those cars that we are finding in the woods or fields still have stronger metal or what every you want to technically call it compared to newer cars . I have spent many of hours pulling these cars from such situations and am still amazed how many of the older ones are stronger than the newer ones. Hell look at the vehicles that are 5-10 yrs old and see how many are rusted to ****. Explain this one to me then If all the additives are in there then what the hell is going on. Either way you look at it though it is a steal body car so yeah it is better than a fibergl*** one and you wont have some on saying something about it not being "real".Either way I am not trying to be a smart *** but my family here is in the recycling business and this is the way I was led to believe metal of today was done. As for the Brokokville body I was also looking into buying a (32 roadster) body from brookville but instead I bought my 39 Ford because of what it was.
I am not against a Brookville body. I am simply trying to figure out whjat is going on with todays metal vs. metal from the past.
Lockwoodkustoms, just some quick notes that I can think of... 1) The gauge of steel was heavier thru the 50's and 60's 2) Todays cars run 3 or 4 times the mileage and then some. wear and tear 3) pollution along and on todays highways can physically be seen by the naked eye. Automobile exhaust is corrosive as is the aircraft exhaust . 4) In the early days and into the 1930's, Most autos where parked during winter months and the sleigh or wagon was brought out during inclimate weather. Once you drained the water from the rad in the fall, you did not put it back in until the cold temperatures were gone. Today's cars drive year round in all types of weather and thru all types of harsh "snow melters" and chemicals at high speed. 5) Many areas of the US (world) have acidic soil, you may or may not live in one area yourself. The cars you see driving down the highways move thru them all and may temporarily "live" in one area or another for different times thru their life. 6) The roads of the early days dictated that you drove at 1 - 15 miles per hour during inclimate weather. In 1930 in the rain you may be lucky to make 10mph. Tires kick up far less water and debris at 10 mph than at todays 75 mph. Far less containments (pollution) would be kicked up during your 3 hour drive in 1930 versus the longer high speed commute of today. 7) Ford built his own steel mills. By 1914 he was boasting that there were 14 different types of steel in a Model T. Don't be fooled, Ford would strive for quality metal and no one could supply it, So he built the plants, machinery and developed more durable and long lasting steels himself. Other manufacturers would not and did not catch up to the quality of steel that Ford produced even thru the Flathead years. When you look at the quality of the old cars that you have dealt with, remember that the Ford cars did have much higher qulity steel dating back to the teens... These cars did not winter drive unless you lived in the deep south. These cars did not drive far on a daily basis. These cars did not drive during rainy seasons when the (mud) roads were imp***able. The horse and buggy was still the mainstay of winter and wet road conditions even into the 1960's in certain areas. If you want your new car to last forever, Go live in Tempe/Pheonix Arizona as the soil is a****st the most friendly to steel and iron in all the USA - Plus it's allmost always nice suuny day cruizen weather. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base was the sight selected for storage of post WWII aircraft returning from the European Theater (of war)(wikipedia) "With the end of the war, operations at the base came to a virtual standstill. It was then the base was selected as a storage site for hundreds of decommissioned aircraft with the activation of the 3040th Aircraft Storage Group. The 3040th oversaw the storage of excess B-29s and C-47 "Gooney Birds." Tucson's dry climate and alkali soil made it an ideal location for aircraft storage and preservation, a mission that has continued to this day." just my humble opinion .
And I bought a Brookville body because of what it wasn't. It wasn't going to cost me 600 hours of MY time to restore (plus 200 hours for paint). I wasn't going to chop up a piece of history that can never be returned to it's original running condition. When I see people taking perfectly good cars and ripping the OEM motors out to put ****boxc's in. That irks me. I'm not prepared to **** a piece of history and ******** the engine bay. Many could care less about real antiques or history for that matter. I'm not one of those that can turn a blind eye to what was. In my books it should be considered a crime to ******** a Ford, Desoto, Willys etc. I say Keep the planned obsolescence engines in the planned obsolescence cars and leave Bangers, Flatheads and history alone. 400 years from now when all the original cars have been ****d.... imho, It only takes a fool with money to buy and ******** a early piece of history. It only takes your hard earned money and your time to build from new steel while preserving history for the next generation. It takes considerable time and effort to take yard art or a barn find and restore it to it's original glory. It doesn't take much money to buy cheaply made small blocks. It does take time, effort and re$our$es to rebuild a banger or a Flathead or an original steel car. Many others have restored to former glory, Many can opt into conserving a nice piece of history and have a nice hotrod to boot. But some will not be satisfied until the name Ford is obliterated from the planet and all the original cars have planned obsolescence engines in them. The history of Ford went against the grain of those manufacturers that have built cars since the 20's as planned obsolescence. Ford cars were built to last indefinatly using the best engineering and materials. Why wreck what Henry Ford designed and built to last and be serviced indefinitely? That's the sole reason to buy a Brookville body. Put what you want in it while saving gobs of money on restoring and don't take away from the limited supply of original cars whether running or not. This car recently came up for sale and was available for $6500 (don't pm me, thank you) It's a 1928 Willys Whippet Coupe ...(please don't pm me, thank you) It has 24,000 original miles on the odometer... (please don't pm me) It's 80 years old now, where will it be and what will it look like in another 80 Years? ( I don't like showing this stuff on the net/forums for obvious reasons, call me selfish) I like it's 80 year old mug as it is... Oh the tales it could tell, it would be like sitting down with your favorite grandpa and listening to the stories of the way things used to be as he cranked up his favourite Victrola and spun up Grayson And Whitter's Handsome Molly (1927)..... It'll be a sad day when grandpa is gone... Just like Granpa's stories, his Victrola and his favourite band, the willy's coupe brings tears to my eyes. Somebody has held this car close to the heart for 80 years. That's a lot of love.... ...To properly restore this car to original factory condition would take some 1200~ hours at $70 per hour shop time, plus parts or around $100,000. Just finding it's original front/rear bumpers may take years. To clean up the car and flip it for $10k would be easy and 99.9% of the people would put a sbc engine in it. Another piece of history would be lost to some ***hole with money and sodomizing on the brain. Buy a brookville roadster, leave the original cars alone, save time and $ on restoring and thanks to all for not pm'ing me about the willys coupe. Just my non sodomizing opinion .
Moe thanks for the knowledge I appreciate it. I am greatful for the people on this site for helping me to understand things that I am not sure about. Know that I have been schooled on the topibcs of metal I have a better understanding. therefore I will definitely watch what i say as to a subject I have no factual evidence to back myself up with. Oh yeah My 39 has not been torn apart and messed with that much. It still has the flatty in it and I wouldn't have it any other way.
I think 99% of the difference in lifespans between '32 coupes and new Camaros is the salt on the roads and personal upkeep by the owner. States/municipalities didn't have the snowmelt chemicals to use back then. And cars were a larger investment back then, so people took better care of them. If the steel hasn't changed, society has.
i personally have considered using a brookville 29 roaster body. its the only thing i would subs***ute for the real deal.
Re: the late model rigs rusting out. Along with the road salts in the north I think they have a lot more places for moisture and crud to get trapped and start rust from the inside. Plus as mentioned above the later model cars get driven more in two years than a lot of the 20's and 30's stuff got driven in it's life time. In the 50's getting 100K miles out of an original engine with out repairs was unheard of except in very rare situations (usually a salesman who was on the road all the time but cared for his car on a regular basis). Now it is so common that people don't even consider 100K to be excessive milage on anything built after about 1990. For some reason Moefuz sounds a lot like a guy who wouldn't sell me a part at a swapmeet in Texas years ago because I intended to use it on a hotrod. Said he would rather let it rot than sell it to a hotrodder. I'll agree on the economics of buying a new steel repro body vs paying the current asking price for a desirable body style and then paying to have it repaired to the same condition are making more sense all the time. Do I pay them ****$$ for the new body or do I pay ****$$ for a real body and ****$$ again for the body man to make it perfect.
There are lots of folks out there... love em or hate me... As for parts, I don't really care one way or the other, But I'm pretty well set when it comes to restored or restore able cars or bodies. To each his own. .
Hey moefuzz, You have a lot of good points in your post.I enjoyed reading them. One of these days I'll have a 32 roadster...someday.
I have to admit I'm with more fuzz as much as I try and call myself a hotrodder. I have an English upright Ford barnfind that I use as a daily at the moment but really in my opinion it's too good to cut up and hotrod. I do want to build a rodded version of this car but it won't be with this one. There's plenty of knackered ones out there that I can cut up and leave this one (give or take a few practical bits) as an original runner as Henry or Bob or whoever ran Ford over here intended it So yeah that's completely off topic. Er, yeah Brookville bodies... if you can afford one go for it. I ****** hate bodywork repairs on old steel. And fitting window mechanisms and runners in gl*** doors.
Moefuzz I agree with you on the subject of leaving perfectly restorable cars alone, hot rods can be built from parts cars but resto projects need all of the original parts. Lockwoodkustoms people drive there cars a lot longer than they used to and there is a lot of salt and such on the roads, not to mention old cars were basically stamped steel where as the cars now have all kinds of reinforcements and pockets for water to sit and rot out the cars. As mentioned earlier about people in rural areas not driving in the winter, I have a silent video of when the town my grandmother grew up in back in 1936 finally got a snow plow and everyone in the town came out to watch it do it's thing, My grandmother said before that you just didn't drive in the winter you either walked or rode a sleigh.
The Jalopy Journal
