First post for the "FNG" I've got a question for the body men. I myself still weld everything when doing panel replacement or repairs, but some of my friends that work primarily in collision repair have gone to these new adhesives rather than welding panels or repair patches. are any of you guys applying the new panel bonding adhesives in place of welding when working on cl***ics/hot rods/muscle cars etc? Just curious. Dave
Lazy. Don't get me wrong, but I would hate to sand down to bare metal only to find the panel was bonded inplace. Kinda like finding rivits...
Most people I have seen use it still weld a few areas but from what I have seen it works great and resist rust in the seam but I still wouldn't use it in the hot rod industry because it just doesn't make for a good looking repair in my opinion.
I was happy to use it on my 77 Blazer and it worked well. I did tack weld the corners. It has held up to off road abuse for over 10 years now. But....I would have to agree with some of the other posts. I think I would not be happy with using it on my old cars. I feel it's out of place and personally get more satisfaction out of welding and straightening the panel.
Plus i remember a friends car where the body shop used the adhesives on the rear quarters and to secure the deck lid to it's underside. Painted it. Looked great. Took it out for a sunday. A hot shiny sunday. It all warped weird. I know it was just bad application by the body shop, I'm sure in the right hands it's fine. But the right hands might want to think about doing it the way they did back then too. Just IMHO
Glue is a factory approved repair, and in the world of insurance claims, nobody is paying anything over flat rate for a repair.
I guess my big hang up is... well , it's glue. and I guess it's just hard to get past the whole culture part.... steel & hot rods, just seems like it should be welded... But were do you draw the line? I don't lead my seams.... I guess I'd be willing to try it on one of my own projects for myself just as an experiment but I'm not in any hurry to do it on a car/truck for someone else. dave
I witessed a test where two pieces of sheetmetal were glued together and two were plug welded like a new 1/4 or any replacement part would be. They then clamped them up in the frame rack and gave them a pull. Guess which one was stronger? The glue could not be pulled apart, it ripped the surrounding metal apart first. The welds kinda did the same thing but right around each weld. It was pretty obvious when you were watching it that the glue is stronger in some applications. Also if you can glue certain items or areas on restorations, it saves alot of grinding and will also look ALOT better because there wont be evidence of welded panels and "backsides" of welds when someone starts looking around. Don't doubt the strength of the stuff, when done right it is stronger then nearly any other bond.
I use it on late model collision jobs i do and have used it on my scout but on the early stuff i still weld it.
on a long seam that lands on spooky areas like across a 1/4 panel I usually step flange the panel or patch & tuck the flange lip under/behind the prepped & trimmed adjoining edge & I plug weld enough spots to hold the edges flush with each other then I start s***ching with the miller & moving around until I've got a fully welded seam. I guess I do normally have to do some straightening afterwards because it seems no mater how careful you are the fact is you are introducing intense heat to sheetmetal & I usually do have to tend to some minor warping. but I feel good about the panel because it's fully welded. I have a couple of old (not that old, 70's vintage) ford pickups that I beat around in for fun, I'm thinking of trying the panel adhesive on the 77 1/2 ton for some typical bed side repair patches. I can't afford full panels like I'd like want right now but with those type of patches on those big flat panels, it might be a good place for me to try the adhesives with a few tack/plug welds & see how it holds up.
Yeah - I've always been a little curious about the stuff too, as I'm no welder (not by any means - are you kidding? I'd probably lose a foot...). This would make an awesome tech - at the very least we could see exactly what it's all about in pictures. To actually see it done would do wonders towards helping me decide if it's truly for me or not. ~Jason
Only problem with using it is "ghost lines" after painting. Can't help it as the expansion rates of metal and adhesive are different. If you use it do it where it won't bee seen. I've used Fusor and it works awesome. I actually have the gun (barely used) if anyone wants to buy it.
Tooslow54, I was actually thinking of this on my comute to my day job this morning, exactly what you just said. the thermal exp rates... the fact that the 2 materials are so different.. I was worried about that. shrunken filler on a dressed seam can have a body man wearing the "*** hat", doing the walk of shame... I guess that's why I'd have to try it on my own junk first as an experiment if I'm planning on floating a glued seam across the mid section of a panel.
Just like welding, it's all about the proper prep, choosing the right product and applying it correctly. I worked in the body ***embly area at a Ford plant (as a spot welder, then supervisor, then body engineer) up until 2001 and as a field engineer until 2004. We were just getting into some of the epoxy adhesives when I left. It was originally used in the aluminum hoods between the inner and outer skin. There were still welds in selected places, however (like on the sides). This stuff was every bit as strong as welding when done right. We would occasionally get racks of hoods in from the stamping plant that had a poor mix of adhesive and they were floppy as hell. We couldn't fix them on site, so they had to go back to the stamping plant. Sometimes, it would also cause a weird twist in the hood or a bump somewhere if too much was applied in one place. Weld-able sealers and adhesives have been around longer than that, such as on floor pan to firewall joints and side sills on modern pickup truck cabs. Some of these are two part epoxies that are activated when they are applied and others are heat activated when they go through the paint ovens. This product was mainly for water sealing, and a little bit for added structural integrity. I think it would be interesting to use in the right place on a traditional build. I would never use it exclusively, because that's not what it is designed for. I think it would be good in some inner panel applications and maybe in some places that are prone to collect water and rust. The adhesive would do a good job of making those joints and keeping water out of done right. I don't sees anything wrong with combining old technology with new if it's thought out and done right. I would also practice a LOT on some s**** panels before using it. In a factory setting, there are multi-million dollar robots controlling the path and the volume applied in any given area.
Don't glue any repair panels on any kind of Hot Rod, Custom or anything you take pride in. A good friend of mine thought it would be best to panel bond new door bottoms on a 70 El Camino he was restoring. When he had the car in the sun you could see a ling in the primer where the seams were. He contacted the sales rep and was told that he needed a sealer over the doors. Well everything was sealed, painted and guess what? You could still see the seam in the sun!!! So he had to go out , find new doors and weld in the repair panels. Don't take shortcuts it doesn't pay in the long run. **** weld your seams.
Yeah it will work great on something covered up (under beltline moulding, etc) but will look like **** if you use it to french headlights and tail lights...ask me how I know.
If you use this stuff you have a to over lap your body pannels then slap on a bunch of filler to even out the two planes?
Yeah, I'd never use it for exterior-facing seams. Inside of doorjambs is a perfect use for it though. I still weld the corners though.....
I welded my cans in from the outside for recessed turnsigs, taillites, sunken aerials etc. Then instead of welding a brace on insides to keep them from breaking loose or cracking from my pizz poor welding skills ( some of them are in pretty deep) I put a heavy rubber glove on and smitzed panel bond on the inside of the cans along the joints wit me finner. Worked great and that **** is strong
Im like the rest of you that have posted here, I wouldn't use it on my car, it just dosen't seem like the right thing to do. I Know a lot of body shops use it for door skins, and other panel replacements on late models. I watched a program on I think the discovery channel, that featured the aircraft industry, and they use a lot of adhesive, kinda scary.
It might be a good ideal to avoid using the adhesive, instead of welding, on steering or suspension components
Hmmn. I would think that goes without saying. Everything we've been discussing is body panel related.
I use Fusor metal adhesive at work all the time. I mainly use it on pinch welds, I have however used it once on a sail panel seem, and heat made it swell. I guess what I'm trying to say is on a patch panel or seam I would weld you cant beat welding
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