I'm ready to put the cage in the car. It will be a 10 point setup. There are 2 kits available that I'm persuing and wondered if anyone has experience installing these roll cages. They say that they are cut to fit, but you know how that goes. Do I need a tubing notcher to get a perfect fit or are these CNC'd to fit exactly true. I'm a little intimidated by this install as I suck at doing wood moulding. especially cove moulding. Do these kits start with the top part of the cage so you have the clearance to weld the pipes close to the headliner? Any help or advice is appreciated.
From the way you talk, it doesn't sound like you've ever fooled with putting in a cage or bar and you're not too sure what you're doing. If that's the case, you need to have someone else install it. That said, I've never fooled with a kit, but especially if it says cut to fit, there's a good chance you'll need a notcher. You can also use a cut-off wheel to do the same thing, but it takes some practice to be able to get the angles right. After you do it a few times, though, it doesn't take any longer than using a notcher.
Thanks, You are correct...I never put a cage in a car..ever. I've always had it professionally done and have paid over 1000.00 for a custom 10 point. My welding skill levels have dramatically improved since I retired and I can do it. I just have no experience with these kits that are made by Competition Engineering (Moroso Co.) and S&W. I have a good idea what to do and where to place it to tie in with all my other drag only chassis strengthening add ons. My comment about wood moulding is the only thing I can relate to that can compare to angles, cut, and fit. (I admit I suck at this and have moulding installed in my closet to proove it). I have never used a tubing notcher either. I have a lot of patience and have been restoring cars by myself for over 40 years. Always willing to learn and I do everyday myself but am intimidated by this one because of the certification issue (NHRA).
A grand for a custom fitted cage isn't bad. "Kits" involve a lot of cutting & fitting and if it's like the kits I've used in the past, will never be a perfect fit. I can't stand the main hoop way inside the car or the A pillar bars 10" back from the posts. I finally got a deal on a JD2 bender and do my best to fit the bars so you have to look for them.
Do you weld the top section that is close to the headliner or do you weld this as an assembly first, then raise up towards the headliner? Thanks.
Cut holes in the floor, drop the assembly down, weld the top, raise it back up and weld up the floor.
Pick yourself up a copy of Chris Alston Chassisworks and Art Morrison's catalog's there is how to installation info in both. I think it may be available online as well. Also check out a current NHRA rule book there are Roll Cage spec. diagrams for door slammer cars.
I always fitted up the main hoop and tacked it to the floor plates. One tack on the front and one on the rear. I then fitted up the roof hoop. Once I was happy with the fit and joints I then tacked the roof hoop to the main hoop. Then I would ziz wheel the tack welds on the REAR of the main hoop. This would allow the main hoop [ with attached roof hoop ] to pivot forward on the front tack welds. Then you had easy access to the roof hoop joints and could weld the top section of the joint. When they had cooled off I would then rotate the assembly back upright and redo the tack welds at the back of the main hoop at the floor plate. I had made a fixture that would wedge against the floor and had a threaded top saddle that would support the roof hoop up against the roof of the car. Cutting holes in the floor for the main hoop legs to drop through seems like it just makes extra work imo. I always welded in all the floor plates before I started bending any tubing.
Interesting idea. I will have to see what I get with the kit. Still haven't decided which one to get. S&W is the best deal as I could drive there from NJ and pick it up.
I like that idea also with the tip & tack method for access. Dumbass me never thinks this way and when someone shows me something simple...why didn't I think of that"? I've been on the otherside of the equation also. Guess this is just normal.
except you either need to weld baseplates for the cage to mount to or have tubing (ie rocker to subframe connector)under the car for it to mount to to be legal. My father put an s&W kit in his falcon, guess it went in with no hassles...I was living out of state at the time
It took me a couple of years to come up with that method. Before I figured that one out I had even gone as far as cutting the roof off and welding it back on when the cage was done. The tip method works super.
Alston or Morrison will do a cage for it that will fit perfectly and all the tubing is properly fish-mouthed. Still, a person who's done it before is real handy to make sure it is in there good and square with good welds.
If this is a NHRA deal I believe you have to have it installed by a certified SEMA installer or has to be inspected/approved by one. They then afix their stamp on the cage to show it passes spec. I would check on this before doing any work as they can be real.............'s when it comes time to let you race. Just trying to save you future headaches. If it's a street car not a problem but it's always better to have an experienced hand in the mix. Frank
The hole-in-the-floor method does work in many cases but is a little more effort and may not work when you have a frame member in the way or when you are mounting the floor plates to the rockers on a unibody car. I like to tack all of my tubes together before doing the final welding, to make sure that none of the tubes move around when welding. That's why, while I may use the tack-n-tip method on occasion, I'd rather keep everything tacked and just weld very carefully around the headliner. In most cases, using a smaller-bodied MIG gun or TIG torch and by controlling the heat, I've found I can weld very close to a headliner without damaging it. Those "velvetshield" blankets are very helpful. Frank, just an FYI, SEMA does not have anything to do with the NHRA inspection or chassis certification process. You might be thinking about SFI which is the organization (used to be part of SEMA but not anymore) that creates the specifications for chassis and (in conjunction with NHRA) certifies chassis inspectors, but is not involved in the actual cage fabrication/installation or inspection process. I do fully agree that, if you are planning to run quick enough to need a sub-10-second chassis cert, get the input of your local inspector or at least someone who has built a certified cage before. It's alot easier to make changes to your cage design before everything is welded. And a $10 rulebook (available from the NHRA or your local track) is a worthwhile investment. Hank
Hank, I live about 6 miles from Atco Dragway and know the inspectors and what they look for to match the cage to the ET requirement and apply the appropriate certification sticker. I started this thread to see if anyone had experience with the kits that are sold by S&W vs Competition Engineering. Since I am now retired and on a limited budget, a custom made $1000+ installation is out of the picture. My first roll cage, a guy custom bult for me out of mild steel for $200.00 I will have to do it myself and am a little intimidated by trying this. My welding skills are excellent as long as I can see, and in a somewhat comfortable position. I'm just not sure of the tubing notcher and whether I can get a nice close fit. I originally thought these kits were pre-notched and CNC't to fit perfect. I leaning towards the S&W kit as I could drive and pick it up in 4 hours. Mike
You can do an excellent tube fitting job with a 4" angle grinder and/or a 6" bench grinder. Just time consuming with all the back and forth trips between the car and the tools.
Why can't you be my neighbor? Dude, I'm very jealous of you. Chop Saw...you must be really good! That's where I really suck at when I do wood moulding at home. I fooled around practicing with some 2" scrap pipe and had trouble getting my angles to fit perfect. I just got my new Summit Racing Tool Catalog today and they are offering tube and pipe joints. Made by Pipemasterfor all sizes of tubing. Pretty neat, check it out on page 27. Mike
I know this post is old but taking a chance. I'm using the S&W kit for my '64 Comet. It doesn't need to be a Comet or Falcon but can you show some examples of where the A-pillar bar meets the halo bar at the front? I just want to see what others are doing at that joint. Here is what I've got going. Thanks!
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